Made lower than the angels...

[Lost Squirrel]

had a question in today's bible study that I just couldn't anwer. One gal is bothered by Heb 2:5-8, particularly with regard to v7, and I still ponder this:

"You made him for a little while lower than the angels;
you have crowned him with glory and honor" (ESV)

or

"You made them for a little while lower than the angels;
you have crowned him with glory and honor" (NRSV)

Sorry, my Greek is too far gone to even begin to poke at it, but the Vulgate, however, uses "eum", indicating the direct object of God's creation is masculine 3rd person "him" (minuisti eum paulo minus ab angelis gloria et honore coronasti eum et constituisti eum super opera manuum tuarum), so I would be inclined to believe that Jerome truly did intend to use a singular object reflecting Jesus. I am seeing references to Ps 8:4-6, where they indicate "Son of Man".

From one angle, if we truly believe that Christ was equal in all ways to the Father as outlined in our Athanasian creed ("And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another"), how can we also accept that Christ had been "made lower"? Yes, we know his dual nature of being both human and divine comes into play, but that can't be the entirety of the story. Or can it? Is this indicative of his emotional human response to his anguish in the garden (pleading with the Father to take this cup away if it is to be) and suffering on the cross (cry of dereliction)? Is this to point that the terminal point of Jesus' earthly life is a human weakness? Is this a result of Jesus not knowing all that God has revealed to him? OR, are we just reding this entirely wrong?

I am also really puzzled why the NRSV has radically changed the direct object "eum". Is this part of their inclusive language that everyone is gripping about, or is it to really reflect humankind, not Jesus?

 

[Cappadocious]

had a question in today's bible study that I just couldn't anwer. One gal is bothered by Heb 2:5-8, particularly with regard to v7, and I still ponder this:

"You made him for a little while lower than the angels;
you have crowned him with glory and honor" (ESV)

or

"You made them for a little while lower than the angels;
you have crowned him with glory and honor" (NRSV)

Sorry, my Greek is too far gone to even begin to poke at it, but the Vulgate, however, uses "eum", indicating the direct object of God's creation is masculine 3rd person "him" (minuisti eum paulo minus ab angelis gloria et honore coronasti eum et constituisti eum super opera manuum tuarum), so I would be inclined to believe that Jerome truly did intend to use a singular object reflecting Jesus. I am seeing references to Ps 8:4-6, where they indicate "Son of Man".

From one angle, if we truly believe that Christ was equal in all ways to the Father as outlined in our Athanasian creed ("And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another"), how can we also accept that Christ had been "made lower"? Yes, we know his dual nature of being both human and divine comes into play, but that can't be the entirety of the story. Or can it? Is this indicative of his emotional human response to his anguish in the garden (pleading with the Father to take this cup away if it is to be) and suffering on the cross (cry of dereliction)? Is this to point that the terminal point of Jesus' earthly life is a human weakness? Is this a result of Jesus not knowing all that God has revealed to him? OR, are we just reding this entirely wrong?

I am also really puzzled why the NRSV has radically changed the direct object "eum". Is this part of their inclusive language that everyone is gripping about, or is it to really reflect humankind, not Jesus?

If I may offer my own thoughts, I believe that your problem has less to do with the Vulgate and more to do with one's anthropology; one's theological anthropology, specifically.

Throughout the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets, we learn a lot about what righteous humanity looks like. Or, to put it another way, we learn a lot about what humanity looks like.

It is also the ancient Christian conviction that Jesus Christ is the Righteous Man himself, the true human being, the true Adam, who came into the world. And that in Jesus Christ, and only in Him, can we truly be considered righteous; only in Him can we truly be considered human.

So when we read Psalm 1, Psalm 2, or Psalm 8 (with which we are specifically concerned here), or any of the psalms, we must understand that only Christ can be truly considered "the Man" of those psalms; and, therefore, us in Him.

So it does not matter whether or not Psalm 8 implies or reads "them" or "him"; the implication is the same for us Christians.

Now, the phrase "a little lower than the angels", which, in the Hebrew, actually says something like, "a little lower than Divine" (ironically enough, that's my signature) is to be read in the context:

"What is man, that You remember him? The son of man, that You visit him?

And make him a little less than Divine, and with honor and majesty compass him."


So, in context, man's gifts are being extolled, rather than his humble estate being exposed. For he is made almost Divine! What honor, you see, to be made almost Divine!

To be a true human being is to be high priest of creation, an el, a god serving God in a grand diakonia, a grand ministry to all of creation.

Turning now to that Man Jesus, toward whom we offer Divine Service: He is God's Word as a real human being, and, according to Hebrews, when he is glorified humanly, as a man, it is precisely because he became a man and obtained that name above every name. As a man, as THE Man.

A little earlier in Hebrews we read: "For He did not subject to angels the universe to come, concerning which we are speaking." Here Paul speaks of Christ, and us in Christ.

The authority of divine kingship (Psalm 2), to walk in righteousness (Psalm 1) and the honor of being made almost an El, almost Divine by nature, (Psalm 8) belongs not to angels, powers, or beasts, but to man alone. And it is Jesus Christ, the True Man, through whom we can become human and receive this inheritance.

Concerning the Divinity of that Word in the flesh, we read even earlier in Hebrews:

"In these last days [the Lord] has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the ages."

So that same Word, Power, Wisdom and Son of God who made the ages; He becomes man, and theanthropically, as a man, is coronated as King and Messiah, appointed heir of all things. There is no conflict between Christ's Divinity and the fact that He is a man. In fact, we know He is Divine, and encounter his divinity, precisely *because* of the man He is.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

The decision of NRSV seems based on its decision to be gender neutral in relation to people. Since the text is quoting Psalm 8, you will notice Psalm 8 goes:
"what are human beings [man] that you are mindful of them, mortals [son of man] that you care for them? Yet you have made them a little lower than God, and crowned them with glory and honor."
Because the text is speaking broadly, it utilizes a gender neutral term, and the relation of the pronoun is plural as it understands that "man" though singular is used broadly here. Best I can tell from online resources (my Hebrew and Greek are packed away right now) this is a nuance of the translation to be more inclusive and the original text is grammatically singular. The struggle here is the NRSV is balancing that it is a direct quote of the Psalm, which they have rendered according to a broad humanity thing, seeing it as a whole speaking about more than just Christ, but then Hebrews employs a section of it speaking particularly about Christ. Hope that helps.

But as to the humanity issue and lower than angels, this is often talked about in terms of Christ's "state of humiliation" and "state of exaltation" which is not an act of losing his divinity which as we confess is equal, but is the act of enduring things that would seem impossible for one equal with God to endure. Or better put:
(from Schmid's Doctrinal Theology of the Evangelical Lutheran Church")
The State of Humiliation consists in this, that Christ for a time renounced (truly and really, yet freely) the plenary exercise of the divine majesty, which His human nature has acquire in the personal union, and, as a lowly man, endured what was far beneath the divine majesty (that He might suffer and die for the life of the world).

It goes on to list (and explain) how the following are "the principle aspects in which the humiliation of Christ reveals itself:" conception, nativity, circumcision, education, visible intercouse of Christ in the world (non-sexually speaking in case you are wondering), great suffering, death, burial.

This is particularly helpful in how Hebrews actually looks to the phrase "for a little while". The State of Humiliation gives way then to Christ's "State of Exaltation" which is "the state of Christ, the God-man, in which He, according to His human nature, having laid aside the infirmties of the flesh, received and assumed the plenary exercise of the divine majesty." understood most in his descent to death/hell, his resurrection, Ascension, being seated at the right hand of God.

In general though this is a very complex teaching, rooted deeply in the complex and paradoxical teachings on the two natures of Christ. The language is very careful and precise. Another helpful section from this book references I believe it's Chemnitz:

"Self-renunciation, therefore, does not signify a deprivation, removal, despoiling, putting off, casting aside, laying down, removal, want, absence, defect, destitution, or vacancy of the fullness of the Godhead, [my emphasis] which, from the from the very moment of conception, dwelt in Christ bodily. But it respects its use or employment, because, being covered by weakness during the time of self-renunciation, it did not always shine in and through the human nature of Christ, and through it fully and clearly exercise itself; for, for a short time withdrawing and withholding from activity the divine virtue present and dwelling bodily in the human nature, and through the human nature of Christ, as Ambrose says, He permitted His natural properties and other assumed infirmities to prevail, predominate, and exercise themselves as if alone in His human nature. Yet, lest any one, because of the self-renunciation of this employment, should imagine the absence and defect of the very fulness of the divine nature in the humanity of Christ [also my emphasis], He, in the very time of self-renunciation, whenever He wished, showed that this fulness dwelt in His flesh; and, in the very time of His self-renunciation, whenever and as far as He wished, He exercised, manifested, and employed its use by means of His assumed nature. Thus in miracles he manifested His glory."

I know there is a lot, and these are thick, but that helps open up why this is so complex an issue. The two natures of Christ have to some extent been the source of so many heresies you try not to fall off of the camel by leaning too far one way or another. I do hope these can be of some assistance to you. Blessings to you and your class.

 

[javasquez123]

A agree with Capadocious, without God we are like animals....but with Jesus Christ, we become more that Conquerors!!! Jesus Christ is the Perfect piece in this huge puzzle, Connected to us though his "humanity" and connected to Father God in his "Deity," thus the perfect mediator.

 

[Lost Squirrel]

...
I do hope these can be of some assistance to you.

THANK YOU, thank you for putting a label on what I suspected!

 

[Cappadocious]

The State of Humiliation gives way then to Christ's "State of Exaltation" which is "the state of Christ, the God-man, in which He, according to His human nature, having laid aside the infirmties of the flesh...

Christ was exalted, and God glorified, on the Cross. Was he not?