• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

MAD and Romans 11

Status
Not open for further replies.

Iosias

Senior Contributor
Jul 18, 2004
8,171
227
✟9,648.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Private
"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?" - Romans 11:11-24

If the Church was a brand new work why are gentiles grafted into Israel in this section of Scripture? :scratch:
 

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
779
✟112,705.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The fact is that the Church, as the "bride, or wife. is joined to the Spirit of Christ in the adoption which "the called" who received His New Man name -which He was to come in flesh of- as a sign of that adoption.

so all "the called" are joined to His Living Spirit and are made one in Him, in Spirit by adoption; and in the body of New Man flesh in the resurrection of it, regenerated [or at the translation of it if alive in it at His call for all His own people to gather together to Him].
The namesake people who do not believe are cut off as the natural branches, for unbelief; and those of the wild olive tree are grafted in by belief, and are all one tree, so to speak: not Jews, but the True Israel of God in the Living Son of God; "Israel" [Isaiah 49] as opposed to being first born in the dead son of God, Adam [Luke 3:38].

It's all about being made One Spirit in the Living Son's Living Spirit, by adoption.
 
Upvote 0

SGM4HIM

Regular Member
Jul 17, 2005
1,148
149
North Florida
✟25,654.00
Faith
Non-Denom
EXCELLENT QUESTION INDEED.AND HOW MANY OVERLOOKED" do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. "
AND HOW MANY OF US PARTICIPATED IN THE RICHNESS OF THE ROOT.? CAN OUR EXAMPLE HELP PROVOKE TO JEALOUSLY THE BROKEN OFF BRANCHES ?:scratch:
 
Upvote 0

Dispy

Veteran
Jan 16, 2004
2,551
32
94
South Dakota
✟4,680.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?" - Romans 11:11-24

If the Church was a brand new work why are gentiles grafted into Israel in this section of Scripture? :scratch:

Israel is sometimes protrayed as an olive tree.

In verses 7-12 we find that God has temporarily blinded (set aside) Israel.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Now he is speaking that the purpose of their being set aside is for the reconciliation of the world. Paul describes this receiving of Israel as raising them out of spriitual death into spiritual life.

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

The "firstfruit" of the tree is the good fruit that the good branches produce, and represent those in Israel that believe God.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou (members of the Body of Christ), being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

The "broken off" branches represent "unbelieving" Israel and are "broken off" (removed). Into the place of the borken off branches were grafted in the branches of a "wild olive tree." The grafted in branches represent the Church, the Body of Christ.

The fruit of the wild olive tree is not the same fruit as the remaining branches. The brances are attached to the same tree but produce different fruit.

The key to understanding verses 17-22 lies in this verse - 17. Many today believe that this verse means that the Church, the Body of Christ, was grafted into Israel. Nothing could be further from the truth. The first clue is that the fruit of the natural branches is different from the branches of the grafted in branches. Yet, we both get our nurishment from the same roots.

The blessings that belong to natural brances are salvation/justification, and a place in the earthly kingdom. The source of these blessing come from the root - Christ.

The blessings that belong to the grafted in brancehs are salvation/justification, and a home/hope in heaven. The source of these blessings come from the root - Christ.

The Church, the Body of Christ IS NOT grafted into Israel.] However, both Israel, and the Church, the Body of Christ, get our blessing from the same source - Christ.


18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Paul here is warning the grafted in branches (Body of Christ) not to think of themselves higher the original branches (Israel) because their source of blessings come through the same source as those of the nation of Israel.

From the above we should be able to see that the natural branches and the grafted in branches both produce different fruit. However, they both get their nourishment from the same source - the roots - Christ Jesus.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

Paul says that some Gentiles might get haughty and think that God is now chosing them over the Jews.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Because of unbelief, God broke off the unfruitful natural branches, so the Gentiles should not get too highminded because they too can be broken off.

The Chruch, the Body of Christ, is not Israel or "spiritual" Israel.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.