M4 vs Bear/Lion/beast

[Shyguyelite]

Just curious. Maybe one of you has an answer.

Could an M4 rifle take out a bear/lion or any other big beast?

A better way to put it is does army ammo the M4 use have enough power to kill a bear?

 

[moerunamida]

Eh....I have no idea what kind of rifle that is. Do you have a picture?

 

[Shyguyelite]

The Colt M4, M4A1 pictured below.

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Using, say, 5.56mm NATO. In other words, say a marine runs into a bear.
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VS.

I pretty sure it has more to do with the ammunition than the gun, but say you have an M4, 30 shots. Could you take down a bear at, say, 10 yards in time to save your skin? Lets not get into hunting or animal cruelty, this is a question of life and death lets say.

LoL. OK, a better picture of a (grizzly) bear is::

I know that larger caliber is preferred for hunting, but I don't know how hunting rifles operate. Are they bolt operated, semi...? I do know how the M4 works, somewhat, so I'm just curious how an assault rifle with typical ammunition and firing modes would fare against a bear, or other large beast.

What about elephants? Etc. I don't have a good sense of the power of weapons, save against human beings, and even that is only based on what I read.
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[Bunnymedic]

Depends where you shot it and at what range.

Planning on going bear hunting any time soon?

 

[charlie_hunter]

hp or fmj? hp would tear massive exit wounds in the back of it.

It depends where you place your shots.

Anyway, be a man and take on a beast with the same weapons it's got (big claws)

 

[Weasel7711]

I am PRETTY darn sure an m4 could take down a bear
its an army rifle and NATO FMJ rounds can penetrate armor, why wouldn't it kill a bear. Although an unarmored target would probably be stopped better using JHP (jacketed hollow point)
To be completely sure, just get an m60, im sure it would stop eventually, just hold the trigger down....

you may have to cut out all the bullets if you want to keep the meat...

 

[Weasel7711]

Here is an m4 for those of you who are confused

And here is the civillian version manufactured after the Assault Weapons ban (which just expired a few years ago)

 

[Weasel7711]

Ummm... heres a little tip

Dont look up Colt M4 on yahoo! images...
Those aren't pictures of guns...

 

[charlie_hunter]

http://www.geocities.com/bairdj/f88.htm

now there's a real gun

 

[Weasel7711]

http://www.geocities.com/bairdj/f88.htm

now there's a real gun

dude styer augs are sweet
i also love the L85

 

[Shyguyelite]

Thanks everyone, twas amusing and informational.

 

[charlie_hunter]

dude styer augs are sweet
i also love the L85

they are, but i dont think the ADF trusts them. Pic's of the SAS on ops etc allways has them with M4's!

 

[JacobHall86]

 

[The Princess Bride]

Just curious. Maybe one of you has an answer.

Could an M4 rifle take out a bear/lion or any other big beast?

A better way to put it is does army ammo the M4 use have enough power to kill a bear?

Oh Yeah!!!

In fact, that is my weapon of choice with the military issued ammo (surplus).

Just ask the 40 ft pine tree I toppled at about 50 yrds! (only seconds after this pic was taken! haha....)

 

[Blackguard_]

nevermind

 

[Shyguyelite]

Heres another question; if I had an M4, or any assault rifle, with the proper ammunition, could I kill any land dwelling beast on this Earth with some security?

The obvious answer is; yes, however when I ask this, I usually think of an elephant, and in particular, that one that went nuts in Florida awhile back I think. Police eventually killed it with a hundred+ shots of, I guess 9mm shot from pistols.

From the previous answers it would depend on where I hit the beast (duh I guess). Worst case scenario; the toughest part of an elephant, excluding any extremities.

This is more a question of how powerful assault rifles with typical load outs fare against 'tough' skinned animals.

Like I would not want a pistol shooting 9mm vs. an elephant, if it were charging from a reasonable distance.

The reason is, though I have never had to defend myself against an elephant with a 9mm pistol, I would imagine it would take quite alot of shots. And lets say I'm an off duty cop with a few magazines, and the magazines have max of 13-18 rounds. I think I'd be screwed somewhat.

But assault rifles often are automatic or fire in bursts, vs. an elephant gun, which I believe only shoots one round at a time before having to load another round?

So... could I fare well with a typical assault rifle, assuming that I didn't have incredible aim and didn't shoot the eyes out or other 'miracle' shots?

I suppose the question this post asks is are military small arms (no restrictions on automatic firing), designed to kill human beings any good at fighting other (big, tough) land dwelling things?

The physics is the same for all guns; you shoot a projectile at high velocity with as much energy as possible. The question is in the design and purpose, and the limits of weapons.

 

[Blackguard_]

I suppose the question this post asks is are military small arms (no restrictions on automatic firing), designed to kill human beings any good at fighting other (big, tough) land dwelling things?

Well, what do you consider "good"? As you imply, sure you kill any creature whose rib-bones at least you could pierce with enough bullets, but is that "good" to need say, 5 shots next to a round you only need one of?

And it very much depends on the miliatry small arm. For example, the rounds of many military bolt actions (and hence of some early semi/fully-automatics) have been used in hunting large game.

But assault rifles often are automatic or fire in bursts, vs. an elephant gun, which I believe only shoots one round at a time before having to load another round?

Many are bolt-action IIRC. There isn't a single "elephant gun".

 

[Shyguyelite]

Using this gun

using the ammo (5.56 x 45 mm, NATO) circled

aiming at the side of an elephant

firing, say, a three round burst, would it kill an elephant
And by kill I mean::
1 a : to deprive of life : cause the death of b (1) : to slaughter (as a hog) for food (2) : to convert a food animal into (a kind of meat) by slaughtering

within a time frame of 0-3 seconds? Or would you end up with a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed off elephant? Suppose your shots hit at those target markers.

What about a head shot.

Disregarding the alignment of the planets and with zero wind, if you hit the surface of the skull, would you kill it in one shot? Two shots in different places? Three shots all in the exact same point? Say you had an M4A1(full automatic). How fast could you kill an elephant, say by shooting at its head, hitting it in various locations of its skull? AP? FMJ?

What about a T-Rex?

How many shots to the head would it take?

I suppose the question is how tough is it for a 5.56 x 45 mm (NATO) to pierce an elephants body (skin) in order to kill an elephant within 3 seconds. AP? FMJ?

How about a rhino? Humpback whale that just jumped out of the water?

What about using 9mm rounds fired from a glock 17? AP? FMJ?

I need to know without any doubts.

 

[Kol]

Just look it up in the player's manual, I'm sure it's all spelled out.

Really, WHY do you need to know?

 

[Shyguyelite]

player's manual? like i'm playing some sort of game? no, this is real life dude. save the t-rex, which, unfortunately, died out some time ago.

Why do I need to know? Just out of curiosity. Don't tell me you never thought about knowing just how effective firearms are against beasts that died out 65 million years ago?


But seriously. I am just curious to how 'tough' these animals are when compared to a common US military assault rifle, the M4 carbine using typical ammunition. Meaning, how 'good' are these weapons that are designed to kill human beings against the biggest animals?


And by good, I mean can you kill it or not if it was charging at you, say giving you about 3-6 seconds, if you hit the spots I pointed out above.

Its based on the assumption that these huge beasts differ somewhat from humans. As in their skin, the amount of it, etc.

And I am just curious to how powerful weapons designed to penetrate human skin do against other types of... skin and flesh.

For instance, a humpback whale. Does a 5.56 x 45 mm round have enough energy to penetrate into a vital organ? To find out, I would have to either do some calculations knowing the materials the bullet needs to 'penetrate' at a given spot on the whale using the energy of the round. Even then, thats just on paper, and I don't have access to a humpback whale or an M4, or viable information or methods to calculate it all. I could just think about it using innate knowledge from experience. Neither of these things I can do.

And the T-rex. Though that was more of a joke, it would be nice to have it answered, because I have been wondering about this for some time. Theres absolutely no way of knowing. For all I know, the t-rex could have had very soft skin, softer than a humans, or really reptilian tough skin. I'm guessing its the latter.

I have never fired a firearm. I have watched 'documentaries', but TV is TV. It would be nice to know how 'relatively' powerful these weapons are against beasts.

Because I do know that generally, weapons designed to kill animals deer size and up can generally kill a human with 'ease'.

I am wondering to what 'level' power would we need to find out the reverse. And only small arms weapons, because nuclear bombs, tank rounds is cheating.

Other than that, this serves no practical purpose. I was just hoping some of you might know from experience with firearms. I have been given some answers, but I would like to get more specific.