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pittguy579
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No, other scientists have an indicated we are more intelligent than dolphins or whales and any other creature on earth
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How have you measured that? Have you compared there structures?
pittguy579 said:No, other scientists have an indicated we are more intelligent than dolphins or whales and any other creature on earth
Edx said:Oh? Like Gould, the guy who doesnt agree with you at all even if we assume he really thought we are the most complex animal on earth?
But that doesn't answer the question whether our brains are more complex. Dolphins are very close to us in terms of cognitive ability, as they've got a high level of abstraction. Our own cognitive abilities might be the result of a few relatively simple extra rules. We still don't know enough about how our brains work in comparison to other highly cognitive animals to make a definite conclusion about that.pittguy579 said:No, other scientists have an indicated we are more intelligent than dolphins or whales and any other creature on earth
You don't know that, and we'll never find out again. He never stated that we are the most complex, not in the snippets you provided. He stated that we are more complex than some of the lower order animals, bactia, jellyfish, trilobites etc. He did not make a statement on the higher order mammals like dolphins or other apes than us. That's something you're reading into his statement, not something he has said.pittguy579 said:Gould does agree with me
But you were not arguing that. You were arguing overall horsepower. Humans have the largest intellectual capability, sure. But that is one aspect, not an overall assessment. I, for one, would have no idea how to make such an assessment. I think any such comparison, just as comparisons in 'overall' complexity complexity of animals are rubbish, as several different complex structures cannot be compared. It's like comparing apples to oranges.And you are saying human's do not have the greatest amount of intellectual horsepower out of all the animals on the planet?
The only measurement methods on complexity I can find come from computer science. Here there are several proposed methods of measuring complexity. They all center (big surprise) on the structure of the program, for example how much time it takes to perform a step or how many instructions something takes. An example are Halstead complexity measures. The ability the step causes isn't taken into account in these measures. And even here there is much debate on whether such a measure actually makes sense in the first place as a measure of complexity.Elduran said:They're not to my knowledge. Remember that engineering isn't really a science, and offers very little insight into science outside a very narrow view of materials and thermodynamics. This is coming from an ex engineer by the way
lol. Only not in the NetherlandsAlso remember that trains have what are sometimes called engineers
I am saying that dolphin brains are as complex as ours structurally. They have a large cerebral cortex and even more folds than ours (more surface area) which is the best physical indicator of intelligence. Did you look at the reference I provided?pittguy579 said:So you are saying dolphins are smarter than us? Dolphin brains have more problem solving ability than we do?
Really, is that what you are saying?
Size doesn't matter. Output does. Output in a brain is measured by intelligence.
I would love to see some references to back this statement up, 'cause I think you are making stuff up. Show me a scientific paper providing measurements of dolphin intelligence in a way that compares it to human intelligence. I bet you can't.pittguy579 said:No, other scientists have an indicated we are more intelligent than dolphins or whales and any other creature on earth
Please provide us with an objective way of measuring "intellectual horsepower."pittguy579 said:Gould does agree with me
And you are saying human's do not have the greatest amount of intellectual horsepower out of all the animals on the planet?
I am saying that dolphin brains are as complex as ours structurally. They have a large cerebral cortex and even more folds than ours (more surface area) which is the best physical indicator of intelligence. Did you look at the reference I provided?
I would love to see some references to back this statement up, 'cause I think you are making stuff up. Show me a scientific paper providing measurements of dolphin intelligence in a way that compares it to human intelligence. I bet you can't.
Theton levels ala Scientology ?Split Rock said:Please provide us with an objective way of measuring "intellectual horsepower."
]You don't know that, and we'll never find out again. He never stated that we are the most complex, not in the snippets you provided
. He stated that we are more complex than some of the lower order animals, bactia, jellyfish, trilobites etc. He did not make a statement on the higher order mammals like dolphins or other apes than us. That's something you're reading into his statement, not something he has said.
And Gould definitely doesn't agree with you that humans are on top in the world. He specifically stated otherwise in the very article you quoted.
But you were not arguing that. You were arguing overall horsepower. Humans have the largest intellectual capability, sure.
I_Love_Cheese said:"It is obvious"
I submit that this statement defines the non-scientist.
pittguy579 said:And Gould definitely doesn't agree with you that humans are on top in the world. He specifically stated otherwise in the very article you quoted.
No, he agrees with me that are the most complex.
pittguy579 said:No, he agrees with me that are the most complex.
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pittguy579 said:Gould does agree with me
And you are saying human's do not have the greatest amount of intellectual horsepower out of all the animals on the planet?
Edx said:Even if he did, most complex doesnt equal to most capable. Gould specifically says we are NOT the top of the world.
Have you scientifically defined what this horsepower is so that we can measure it against any other life or organ? No.
Edx said:Well done, when in doubt just dont read what people write.
So back when humans couldn't do this yet due to a lack of knowledge, were they less "complex" back then?Even if we don't have the innate ability to process signals such as sonar, we can build machines to do it. No other creature can do that.
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