Lying as a mortal sin

[eBeth]

Hello everyone,

I hope everyone is having a great Lenten season!

I have a question about lying as a mortal sin. Forgive me if this is a silly question, but I was thinking about it last night and I knew everyone here could help me.

I would think lying to be a mortal sin is you deliberately lied in order to destroy another's character or to make ruin of their life. You did this out of revenge, and knew you were doing it. However other lies would not be considered mortal. For example, lying to avoid hurting another's feelings or to protect someone.

My question is, does the type of lie determine if it is a grave matter? So, one would be committing a mortal sin by deliberately slandering someone, but wouldn't if they lied to protect themselves. In either case the person knows they are telling a lie, or they are omitting details (a lie of omission).

Thanks

 

[Michelina]

I would think lying to be a mortal sin is you deliberately lied in order to destroy another's character or to make ruin of their life. You did this out of revenge, and knew you were doing it.

Certainly, mortal, Beth.

However other lies would not be considered mortal... lying to avoid hurting another's feelings or to protect someone.

Sinfulness involves motive, intended consequences, whether the person asking the question has a right to the truth, etc. It's all very circumstantial. But it seems you've got the right idea.

 

[faerieevaH]

I doubt it would be a mortal sin if someone asked you 'how do I look', and you say 'quite well, but you know, the red dress looked better on you', instead of 'Oh help, you look awful, whatever posessed you to even buy the carpet that you're wearing?'

 

[Michelina]

I doubt it would be a mortal sin if someone asked you 'how do I look', and you say 'quite well, but you know, the red dress looked better on you', instead of 'Oh help, you look awful, whatever posessed you to even buy the carpet that you're wearing?'

Morally, it would not be a sin at all. There are social fictions (Daddy's not home right now. etc) that are not sinful at all, not even venially.

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

What if a person lies to make themselves look better, or if a person lies when they did not do something that they said they were going to do? Are these lies mortal sins?

 

[kern]

The Bible commends lying in at least one instance -- Rahab lied to protect Joshua, and she is commended in Hebrews for it.

(Typing this post brought back bad memories of a "lying" thread from a while back which was deleted -- it was the worst thread I've ever seen on this or really any message board.)

-Chris

 

[Magisterium]

We have to be careful in these instances not to assert our own feelings as truth. The church speaks clearly on this matter. In the Catechism, we learn that lying is always sinful in that it deliberately seeks to obscure or negate truth.

However, that said, though all lies are sin, not all are mortal sin. The catechism explains that the gravity of a lie is commensurate with the nature of the matter lied about as well as the intent and the harm suffered by the victim of the lie.

Additionally, lying (like all intrinsically sinful acts) cannot be made good or morally acceptable through one's intent. As the old saying goes, "If you can't say something good, say nothing at all".

 

[kern]

*All* lies are sins? Even if I tell the Nazis that there are no Jews hiding in my house when in fact there are?

-Chris

 

[seebs]

I think Exodus 1 may be directly applicable to the Nazi situation; if the earthly authorities are acting in an evil manner, then one withholds cooperation from them. This may in some cases include lying, or may not.

Chris, I think I remember the thread you have in mind. That was a painful, painful, thread.

 

[Magisterium]

*All* lies are sins? Even if I tell the Nazis that there are no Jews hiding in my house when in fact there are?

-Chris

Funny you should say this. In fact, it was a common occurrence that convents would be searched for Jews in Nazi Germany. However, it's important to make the distinction between withholding information and lying. Withholding information is not intrinsically sinful though deliberately stating an untruth is.

In Nazi Germany, often a nun at a convent would intentionally be kept out of the loop on the activities of hiding jews. In this manner, she could truthfully say "not to my knowledge" if asked whether or not there were Jews on the premises.

This also applies to when a young child may ask a question to which the answer contains material which requires a more developed intellect or maturity. In these cases, it is not acceptableto lie, however, certain information can be withheld and later given when the child reaches maturity.

Additionally, please rmeember that I am not merely presenting my rigorous or legalistic opinion. Paragraphs 2482-2486 of the CCC clearly spell out the Catholic teaching on this. Admittedly, it's a hard teaching especially in a culture which is so accustomed to lying in many ways. However, it's difficulty does not negate it truthfulness.

 

[kern]

Funny you should say this. In fact, it was a common occurrence that convents would be searched for Jews in Nazi Germany. However, it's important to make the distinction between withholding information and lying. Withholding information is not intrinsically sinful though deliberately stating an untruth is.

How can this be? They're basically the same thing -- it's like saying that an insult is OK as long as you use veiled language or make it subtle.

Saying that withholding information is OK but lying is bad seems to reduce Catholicism to a list of rules which you must follow to the exact letter without taking into account what the rules mean. But isn't this something that Jesus condemned?

In Nazi Germany, often a nun at a convent would intentionally be kept out of the loop on the activities of hiding jews. In this manner, she could truthfully say "not to my knowledge" if asked whether or not there were Jews on the premises.

But what if this did not happen? Are you suggesting that the Catholic Church (and God) would prefer someone to give up the Jews to the Nazis rather than telling a lie?

Additionally, please rmeember that I am not merely presenting my rigorous or legalistic opinion. Paragraphs 2482-2486 of the CCC clearly spell out the Catholic teaching on this. Admittedly, it's a hard teaching especially in a culture which is so accustomed to lying in many ways. However, it's difficulty does not negate it truthfulness.

Well, unless someone can interpret those passages in the CCC differently, this is going to have to be a place where I disagree with the Church.

-Chris

-Chris

 

[kern]

Now, the next two paragraphs:

2488 The right to the communication of the truth is not unconditional. Everyone must conform his life to the Gospel precept of fraternal love. This requires us in concrete situations to judge whether or not it is appropriate to reveal the truth to someone who asks for it.

2489 Charity and respect for the truth should dictate the response to every request for information or communication. The good and safety of others, respect for privacy, and the common good are sufficient reasons for being silent about what ought not be known or for making use of a discreet language. The duty to avoid scandal often commands strict discretion. No one is bound to reveal the truth to someone who does not have the right to know it.283

This covers the "do I look fat in this dress?" or "where do babies come from?" cases (I guess), but not the "Jews and Nazis" cases.


-Chris

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

The good and safety of others, respect for privacy, and the common good are sufficient reasons for being silent about what ought not be known or for making use of a discreet language.

I dunno that seems to speak to those hiding those who are persecuted....

To the OP:- there are three conditions which must be met in order for an action to be mortally sinful:
1. Grave matter (it's about something serious- a "biggie")

2.Full Knowledge (you have to know ahead of time that it is wrong)

3. Freedom of choice (you are freely choosing this action)

If any one of those criteria are not met- it is not a mortal sin.

Hence, (saying all other criteria were met)- a lie about your age would be a venial sin- but a lie to another's spouse about their spouse being in an adulterous affair-would be a mortal sin....
3.

 

[Rosa Mystica]

There are social fictions (Daddy's not home right now. etc) that are not sinful at all, not even venially.

I've never heard of such a thing. Does the CCC mention it in any capacity?