Lutherans view on their Scandinavian Churches?

aChildOfMary · Dec 4, 2014

This is a simple, but yet interesting question that I have been wondering about lately.
How does confessional Lutherans view the Scandinavian Lutheran Churches?
Such as the Church of Norway, The Church of Sweeden etc.

How important is the ordination of female ministers,
the gay marriages and so fourth?

Would any of this issues make you think twice about refraining from recieving the communion in their churches?

Yours in Jesus and The Most Holy Theotokos
- MC

SalusaSecundus · Dec 4, 2014

aChildOfMary said:
This is a simple, but yet interesting question that I have been wondering about lately.
How does confessional Lutherans view the Scandinavian Lutheran Churches?
Such as the Church of Norway, The Church of Sweeden etc.

How important is the ordination of female ministers,
the gay marriages and so fourth?

Would any of this issues make you think twice about refraining from recieving the communion in their churches?

Yours in Jesus and The Most Holy Theotokos
- MC

We would not share communion with them if they are ordaining women ministers and supporting gay marriage.

EvangelCatholic · Dec 4, 2014

Lutherans worship God; we are a strong witness to the salvation of Christ. The Scandinavian Lutherans, like many American Lutherans also ordain women priests and have compassion on all of God's children.

Can one look into the faces of these young Lutherans and deny them holy Communion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNx7iL9wi5I

Tangible · Dec 4, 2014

EvangelCatholic said:
Lutherans worship God; we are a strong witness to the salvation of Christ. The Scandinavian Lutherans, like many American Lutherans also ordain women priests and have compassion on all of God's children.

Can one look into the faces of these young Lutherans and deny them holy Communion?

I could and would deny them Holy Communion until they have been properly instructed and catechized. I would also deny them communion if they would not recognize and reject doctrines that are in conflict with Holy Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions.

MarkRohfrietsch · Dec 4, 2014

Tangible said:
I could and would deny them Holy Communion until they have been properly instructed and catechized. I would also deny them communion if they would not recognize and reject doctrines that are in conflict with Holy Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions.

I'll second that.

SalusaSecundus · Dec 4, 2014

EvangelCatholic said:
Lutherans worship God; we are a strong witness to the salvation of Christ. The Scandinavian Lutherans, like many American Lutherans also ordain women priests and have compassion on all of God's children.

Can one look into the faces of these young Lutherans and deny them holy Communion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNx7iL9wi5I

Ordaining women priests and blessing same sex marriages is contrary to Gods word and to our beloved Confessions. To grant someone communion while they are in proud open rebellion would do them more harm.

Izdaari Eristikon · Dec 4, 2014

I'm not very familiar with Scandinavian Lutheranism, but if they ordain women ministers and support gay marriages, I would consider those to be points in their favor. I am of course an ELCA Lutheran. My LCMS and WELS adelphoi would have a different view.

And I'd love to go to Finland and hear the Metal Mass they have in some Lutheran churches there.

Kalevalatar · Dec 5, 2014

The Scandinavian Lutheran churches are a bit of a breed apart from us because they are state churches of monarchies where the monarch is the head of the church. So that's a big difference. Our church is closest to the Church of Norway even though the Norwegian church did not preserve its historic Apostolic succession. The Church of Sweden is like the Swedish society: kids in a candy store. The Church of Denmark and the Church the Faroe Islands -- don't know much about them, other than that the Danish priests wear black cassocks and the large white ruff collars. Obviously, it's the oldest of the Scandinavian churches.

ContraMundum · Dec 5, 2014

I'd consider myself very much in touch with Scandinavian Lutheranism. I think the liberal churches there get a lot of "airtime" in forums etc but there are fabulous "Confessional" Lutherans in Scandinavia too.

There are two tragedies (IMHO) of the Lutherans in Scandinavia (and Germany for that matter) as far as I can see it. The first is liberalism/modernity which is essentially European anyway. The second is the hyper-Biblicism of certain American "Confessional" micro-synods that are selling their over-reactive spin on Church Fellowship and overt literalism to the conservative/orthodox Churches of the old countries. 'Tis a shame, I think.

EvangelCatholic · Dec 6, 2014

My concern with Archbishop Jackelen is her public statements on the virgin birth. The Church of Sweden has significant impact on all of Lutheranism that the Primate of Uppsala must understand. Preach the Gospel; never undermine the holy Faith.

Magnus Maximus · Dec 6, 2014

As I understand it the Swedish church was Lutheran in name only in fact they agreed not to split from the Catholic church if the King could apoint his own Bishops. They maintained apostolic succesion, revere Mary and the Saints and have a Church hiearchy

Unlike most other Protestant churches—including most Lutheran churches—the Church of Sweden (along with its offshoot, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland) continues to maintain the historical episcopate. It is liturgically and theologically "high church", having retained priests, vestments, and the Mass during the Swedish Reformation.

EvangelCatholic · Dec 6, 2014

Magnus Maximus said:
As I understand it the Swedish church was Lutheran in name only in fact they agreed not to split from the Catholic church if the King could apoint his own Bishops. They maintained apostolic succesion, revere Mary and the Saints and have a Church hiearchy

Unlike most other Protestant churchesincluding most Lutheran churchesthe Church of Sweden (along with its offshoot, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland) continues to maintain the historical episcopate. It is liturgically and theologically "high church", having retained priests, vestments, and the Mass during the Swedish Reformation.

My sense is that most Lutheran churches in Europe, outside Germany consider themselves the "Catholic church". The Church of Norway is the "folk" [peoples] church going back to St Olaf who is buried on the grounds of the Nidaros Cathedral.

ContraMundum · Dec 7, 2014

EvangelCatholic said:
My concern with Archbishop Jackelen is her public statements on the virgin birth. The Church of Sweden has significant impact on all of Lutheranism that the Primate of Uppsala must understand. Preach the Gospel; never undermine the holy Faith.

Agreed...I think once you start denying the Creeds, you've lost your faith.

Anna the Seeker · Dec 7, 2014

EvangelCatholic said:
My concern with Archbishop Jackelen is her public statements on the virgin birth. The Church of Sweden has significant impact on all of Lutheranism that the Primate of Uppsala must understand. Preach the Gospel; never undermine the holy Faith.

I'd also say that the members of Lutheran church in Finland are also at odds with Archbishop Mäkinen for his involvement in politics, approving the presence of the priests at sex exhibitions (with live fornication) and siding with homosexual marriages.

It has been proven with large numbers departing the church when those happened. 20 thousand at worst last weekend. Many are looking for a new spiritual home.

EvangelCatholic · Dec 7, 2014

Anna the Seeker
I'd also say that the members of Lutheran church in Finland are also at odds with Archbishop Mäkinen for his involvement in politics, approving the presence of the priests at sex exhibitions (with live fornication) and siding with homosexual marriages.

It has been proven with large numbers departing the church when those happened. 20 thousand at worst last weekend. Many are looking for a new spiritual home.

Yes but don't forget the large number of Finns who left the Church when they felt the archbishop wasn't defending gay marriage a few years ago?

This issue is definitely dividing the Lutheran Church in Europe and America but it is important that we stay in the Church united in our love of Christ.

EvangelCatholic · Dec 7, 2014

Kalevalatar said:
The Scandinavian Lutheran churches are a bit of a breed apart from us because they are state churches of monarchies where the monarch is the head of the church. So that's a big difference. Our church is closest to the Church of Norway even though the Norwegian church did not preserve its historic Apostolic succession. The Church of Sweden is like the Swedish society: kids in a candy store. The Church of Denmark and the Church the Faroe Islands -- don't know much about them, other than that the Danish priests wear black cassocks and the large white ruff collars. Obviously, it's the oldest of the Scandinavian churches.

"the Danish priests wear black cassocks and the large white ruff collars".

Anna the Seeker · Dec 8, 2014

EvangelCatholic said:
This issue is definitely dividing the Lutheran Church in Europe and America but it is important that we stay in the Church united in our love of Christ.

I'm not leaving the church - people are right when they wonder why the conservatives leave when one would expect them to have the greatest will to stay and turn things around.

Sword of the Lord · Dec 8, 2014

Good question! My ancestory is Scandinavian, so that caught my eye.

I have a problem with any church that ordains women and homosexuals, and is perfectly fine and accepting of homosexual behavior. I would certainly able to deny them communion. I'm more concerned with them being guilty of the Body and Blood of The Lord Jesus than I am of hurt feelings.

ContraMundum · Dec 9, 2014

EmperorOfTheCentauri said:
Yep.....I always call it "the clown collar" - because it makes the Pastor look like a freakin circus clown :S

+1

Kalevalatar · Dec 9, 2014

"Clown" collar is still better than a real circus clown -- a botoxed showbiz "pastor" in Italian suit and $60,000 luxury watch entertaining the crowd for money with "prosperity gospel" in a multi-million-dollar state-of-the-art megaplex church.

Lutherans view on their Scandinavian Churches?

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