Lutheran view on Marijuana

Till · Oct 30, 2010

I just came across this article about how Lutherans can and do enjoy things like cigars, cognac and beer:

Steadfast Lutherans » No Pietists Allowed

It says:

Lutherans know how to enjoy the gifts God has given to us without guilt. Of course, this does not mean that we have license to abuse the gifts. We encourage you to enjoy the gifts of creation judiciously.

So what about Marijuana were its consumption to become legal. As is already the case in many countries. And is discussed in other countries. Apparently also wished for by not few in the police force.

Would we see a difference between consuming beer and marijuana? I mean, I for example, had a lot of upsetting stuff at work this week and could have really done with some relaxation ...

JimfromOhio · Oct 30, 2010

LCMS answers:

Marijuana Use | The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod

Till · Oct 30, 2010

Thanks!

Hmm, frankly I feel that most of the arguments in the article could also be used against alcohol. A couple of beers can take much more of your self control than a bit of weed. And is cigar smoking not just as much self indulgence?

I do not think the answer is so clean cut as the article makes it out to be.

JimfromOhio · Oct 30, 2010

Marijuana is a herb. We use herbs for cooking, health and medicine. I don't believe any herbs were created by God to be used as superficial pleasure. The use of herbs dates back to Biblical times and played a major role throughout the Bible.

porterross · Oct 31, 2010

Our bodies are temples, Till, and marijuana stinks even more than cigarettes (and tends to make me sick ). If you need to relax, have sex, play golf or get a Wii, like the rest of us.

As for it being legal, what's that got to do with God's law and what He wants for us? What about prostitution, legally aided suicide, homosexuality or paedophilia? Those things are legal in some places, but does that make them right or God-pleasing? Just askin'...

From my POV, it's kind of a no-brainer, if you use a substance to an extreme in order to numb yourself or escape reality past the point of being in control, you've taken it too far. That abuse and harmful treatment of your temple can't be God-pleasing.

Of course, it's not only drugs or alcohol by which this harm can be done. Many, most or all of us, do something to excess, whether it's drinking, smoking, eating, or being idle, I think we're all capable of being put in the position of being hypocritical when it comes to the question of marijuana. I don't like it, but that doesn't mean it bothers me if someone smokes it legally. I don't put it in the same category as heroin or crack, but that's just me.

Aibrean · Nov 1, 2010

If it a) will damage our bodies or b) will affect our general state of consciousness I don't think it should be used at all.

Zecryphon · Nov 1, 2010

Till said:
I just came across this article about how Lutherans can and do enjoy things like cigars, cognac and beer:

Steadfast Lutherans » No Pietists Allowed

It says:
So what about Marijuana were its consumption to become legal. As is already the case in many countries. And is discussed in other countries. Apparently also wished for by not few in the police force.

Would we see a difference between consuming beer and marijuana? I mean, I for example, had a lot of upsetting stuff at work this week and could have really done with some relaxation ...

Till, Lutherans do what God says must be done, we follow His commandments first and foremost. While we are instructed to follow those put in authority over us, we will not do what they say if what they're saying goes against the will of God.

Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, Rom 13:4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Rom 13:5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. Rom 13:6 For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Rom 13:7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Here is the whole article taken from Steadfast Lutherans as found in the No Pietists Allowed section of that blog.

Steadfast Lutherans » No Pietists Allowed

No Pietists Allowed

CIGARS, COGNAC, BEER AND OTHER PLEASURES OF LIFE
(Blog posts of pleasure edited and reviewed by Pastor Rossow)

Whatâ€™s a pietist?

A pietist is someone who takes all of the fun out of life in the name of religion. They believe that they are pleasing to God because they do not smoke, drink, gamble, play cards, dance, (and if they really thought about it they would probably outlaw golf – did I tell you about the time I spent $300 on a round of golf?).

Jesus was often accused of licentiousness by the pietists of his day. In Matthew 9:11 we read And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, â€œWhy does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?â€ In John 2:1 ff. we see that Jesus first miracle was turning water into wine so that the wedding celebration at Cana could go on. (Of course the pietests say that he only did that because they drank wine in that day instead of water because it was safer to drink the wine which had been purified by the alcohol. If thatâ€™s the case then why didnâ€™t he turn wine into safe water for them to drink?)
Lutherans know how to enjoy the gifts God has given to us without guilt. Of course, this does not mean that we have license to abuse the gifts. We encourage you to enjoy the gifts of creation judiciously.

Please help us learn to better enjoy the gifts of Godâ€™s creation by sharing your comments on the posts below or send us your own post at trossow@steadfastlutherans.org and we will post it for you.

The section of the article you've quoted says we are to enjoy the gifts God has given us judiciously. But look at the list of gifts. Illicit drugs such as Marijuana are never mentioned. You're going beyond the scope of the article. Since the article says that we are to use the gifts God has given us judiciously, that means we must use judgment when deciding for ourselves if what we are doing and putting into our bodies is pleasing to God. Since Marijuana is currently illegal in this country, we are not to use it. If it ever should become legal for recreational use, outside of medicinal use, then we would have to investigate what the effects of this drug on people actually are and if it is indeed safe.

I have personally seen such a wide reaction to this drug from the various people who use it, I can't imagine it ever becoming legal. While it relaxes some people, it makes others paranoid. You have to think beyond yourself on this one and think how it would affect the country as a whole. Plus I was taught in high school that it is very easy to lace a joint with other drugs such as LSD. So how do you know that the joint you get is going to contain only THC, and not some other drug? You don't. Too risky to use if it ever did become legal.

Tangible · Nov 1, 2010

He has a point about it being very similar to alcohol if used in small quantities or in large. The most important thing is to me is that even if a state legalized it, it's still illegal nationally.

QuiltAngel · Nov 1, 2010

If we base our views on how a person's body reacts to it, then there are a lot of legal drugs that should be illegal. Just saying.

Zecryphon · Nov 1, 2010

Tangible said:
He has a point about it being very similar to alcohol if used in small quantities or in large. The most important thing is to me is that even if a state legalized it, it's still illegal nationally.

Perhaps I'm wrong but it's been my understanding that a state can't pass a law that violates national or Federal law. I don't know if he has a point about marijuana being similar to alcohol if used in small or large quantities. I've never used marijuana in any quantity. I mean this whole thread is based on one giant "what if". He's going beyond the text of the blog post and asking about marijuana. As Lutherans I thought we never went beyond the text.

Zecryphon · Nov 1, 2010

QuiltAngel said:
If we base our views on how a person's body reacts to it, then there are a lot of legal drugs that should be illegal. Just saying.

People react differently to different drugs. Should we make Penicillin illegal because I happen to be allergic to it? How about Tetracycline, bad side effects with that one too. No because the benefit to the people as a whole outweighs the dangers to me. But maybe the FDA could do a study on how a group of people react to THC and then use their findings to re-write our laws if necessary on the legality of Marijuana. Frito-Lay could sponsor the study too as they stand to gain a huge surge in profits from legalizing Marijuana. The sales of Doritos and Fritos would go through the roof if this stuff ever became legal.

Studeclunker · Nov 1, 2010

Mary Jane is a friend of mine... Oops, did I just say that out loud? Just kidding.

Hmmm...

Well, as to 'What If?' that issue is to be settled by the State of California tomorrow. The Federal Government's laws don't automatically trump State laws. Especially in the area of issues not directly addressed by the U.S. Constitution. In this case, Marijuana is in an area that will likely fall into the 'States Rights' authority, like alcolhol. Thus, though some things are granted to the Fed as rights and privileges, everything not specifically assigned to the Federal Government is thereby assigned to the individual States. We will see how the Supreme Court addresses this issue as it will most assuredly come before them.

By the by, Zec, you're quite right; a Joint can be laced with drugs. So can a Cigarette, Cigar, drink, food, etc... This has been a silly argument used by the authorities for years.

Prohibition didn't work for Alcolhol and the 'Drug War' is a spectacular failure as well. The only way we will win this struggle is to eliminate the demand for these drugs. As long as the majority of our culture remains hedonist, this issue will continue.

As for myself, I detest the smell of both the product and the Marijuana plant. Then again, Cigarettes and Cigars are rather vile smelling too. Not to mention the fact I'm highly allergic to the smoke.

As to our friend Mary Jane, she's no more harmful than the St. Paulie Girl.

QuiltAngel · Nov 1, 2010

I was thinking of meds that are pain meds, antidepressants, anti-anxiety, sleep meds. Should we make them illegal because they alter moods and some cause hallucinations?

Stude, that is how I understand how a state can legalize something the the Feds say is illegal.

Zecryphon · Nov 1, 2010

By the by, Zec, you're quite right; a Joint can be laced with drugs. So can a Cigarette, Cigar, drink, food, etc... This has been a silly argument used by the authorities for years.

The manufacturing of cigarettes, cigars, and food and drink are more strictly regulated by the company producing them, to make sure nothing else is in there that's not supposed to be, than the local dealer who's buying Marijuana from his supplier and rolling joints and selling them to whoever wants to buy them. I don't think it's a silly argument at all. But if you care to rebut that argument with some actual facts, I'll read 'em.

Zecryphon · Nov 1, 2010

QuiltAngel said:
I was thinking of meds that are pain meds, antidepressants, anti-anxiety, sleep meds. Should we make them illegal because they alter moods and some cause hallucinations?

Stude, that is how I understand how a state can legalize something the the Feds say is illegal.

If the drug in question poses enough of a threat to the populace at large it will be taken off the market or made illegal. Anyone remember the whole Phen-Phen debacle? I've taken my share of pain meds, anti-depressants, anti-anxiety drugs, but no sleep drugs. These drugs do alter moods but they do so to restore a person to a normal, functioning status. A lot of people that take these drugs suffer from chemical imbalances in the body that these drugs help restore. What chemical imbalance does Marijuana help restore? Tell me, please. Because I have no idea.

QuiltAngel · Nov 1, 2010

Positive Effects of Marijuana - Negative Effects of Marijuana

This article cites a lot of sources for positive and negative effects. The sources in this article are from many respected medical organizations.

Also, what about those who become dependent on some of the drugs listed? Are they taking them to restore a normal functioning state at that point? Also, legal drugs are being used in this day and age for the effects a person can get even when they are not prescribed for that person. People steal certain drugs from others so they can get them. They lie to doctors to get them too.

Zecryphon · Nov 1, 2010

QuiltAngel said:
Positive Effects of Marijuana - Negative Effects of Marijuana

This article cites a lot of sources for positive and negative effects. The sources in this article are from many respected medical organizations.

QuiltAngel said:
Also, what about those who become dependent on some of the drugs listed? Are they taking them to restore a normal functioning state at that point? Also, legal drugs are being used in this day and age for the effects a person can get even when they are not prescribed for that person. People steal certain drugs from others so they can get them. They lie to doctors to get them too.

I'll read the article later. But there's a BIG problem here that no one has addressed or mentioned if Marijuana were to become legal. Where ya gonna smoke it? The anti-smoking movement has gotten smoking banned just about everywhere except in a person's home and I think they're trying to get smoking banned there too.

You can't smoke in restaurants or eating establishments, you can't smoke on city property, you can't smoke on airline flights, so where ya gonna smoke your pot? Get it legalized all you want, for those who want it legalized, you're not gonna be able to actually smoke it. Plus you have to think beyond personal use here. Lighting up a joint affects others just as smoking cigarettes, pipes or cigars near someone else affects them. If Marijuana were legalized, the anti-smoking lobby would go after these people too, just like they went after people who smoked pipes, cigars and cigarettes.

QuiltAngel · Nov 1, 2010

Where do people smoke now?

For the record, I am not saying I am for legalizing it or not. I do not use it. Since this topic is a hot issue right now, I am using it for a paper I am doing for a class.

This link is what Prop 19 in California is about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_19_(2010)

QuiltAngel · Nov 1, 2010

In this thread, I did learn that the LCMS has a statement on marijuana which I find interesting.

Zecryphon · Nov 1, 2010

QuiltAngel said:
Where do people smoke now?

For the record, I am not saying I am for legalizing it or not. I do not use it. Since this topic is a hot issue right now, I am using it for a paper I am doing for a class.

QuiltAngel said:
This link is what Prop 19 in California is about : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_19_(2010)

Where do people smoke now? Thanks to the anti-smoking movement, in their homes and that's about it. But if they're successful in getting smoking banned there too, then nobody can smoke anything, anywhere. So legalizing Marijuana, unless they can put it into tablet form or maybe some type of inhaler, really seems pointless right now. 30 years ago, this was a bigger deal because you could still smoke just about anywhere. That isn't the case now. So pushing for the legalization of Marijuana seems kinda stupid to me and as to whether or not God's people should use it is a moot question since right now it is illegal to do so.

Lutheran view on Marijuana

Till

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