Luke 23:43 thief and paradise question

[LittleLambofJesus]

Just a quick question. Did the thief Jesus spoke to in Luke 23:43 go to paradies that same day when he died?
There seems to be some disagreement about the placing of the comma, whether it should be before or after the word "today".
Thanks

Search for 'Genesis 1:1' in the version


NKJV) Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

NASB) Luke 23:43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Rotherham) Luke 23:43 And he said unto him--Verily, I say unto thee this day: With me, shalt thou be in Paradise.

Young) Luke 23:43 and Jesus said to him, `Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'

Textus Rec.) Luke 23:43 kai eipen autw o ihsouV amhn legw soi shmeron met emou esh en tw paradeisw

 

[fm107]

As soon as a person dies, he/she goes to either Paradise or Hades - these are waiting places.

Those who are in hades eventually end up in Hell.

Those in paradise will eventually end up in Heaven.

At the cross, that day when the thief died naturally, and when Jesus gave up his own life. They both went to paradise that very day.

 

[Isolation]

As soon as a person dies, he/she goes to either Paradise or Hades - these are waiting places.

Those who are in hades eventually end up in Hell.

Those in paradise will eventually end up in Heaven.

At the cross, that day when the thief died naturally, and when Jesus gave up his own life. They both went to paradise that very day.

I am unsure of these these statements...
I was aware that there are two resurrections.
The first to life and Saints will reign with Christ for a thousand years.
Then after that the resurrection of the unjust to condemnation.

The apostles occasionally mentioned those who were dead were 'asleep'

 

[fm107]

Your right. But what you say isn't contradictory to my statements.

Jesus will come first to take all his own - those who have fallen asleep (died naturally and are now waiting in Paradise) and those Christians who are still living at the time on earth.

Matthew 24:31
And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Jesus will then comes a second time to bring judgment upon the earth.

Revelation 1:7
Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.

Acts 17:31
For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."

Those dead unbelievers currently wait in Hades, these people as well as those unbelievers living on the Earth when the Lord comes back will have to stand before the Great White Throne and the will be condemned. Then they will go off to the eternal fire (Hell).

 

[ittarter]

Textus Rec.) Luke 23:43 kai eipen autw o ihsouV amhn legw soi shmeron met emou esh en tw paradeisw

My Greek isn't great but I'd suspect the word order more strongly supports the reading that the thief would be with Jesus in paradise that same day.

The expression "Today I say" is found nowhere else in the New Testament. Luke 19:5 makes for a good comparison. Zaccheus is not to come down today but rather today Jesus will stay at his house. However in most other cases hoti separates the "Jesus said" from what he actually said. Too bad Luke omitted it in this case (unlike 19:9; also Mark 14:30).

 

[St_Worm2]

I am unsure of these these statements...

Hey Isolation, read this: The Rich Man & Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) ... about Hades and Paradise (Abraham's bosom).

The apostles occasionally mentioned those who were dead were 'asleep'

Along with the passage from Luke 16, also read The Fifth Seal (Revelation 6:9-11). Do the dead seem conscious or unconscious to you?

Yours and His,
David

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hey Isolation, read this: The Rich Man & Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) ... about Hades and Paradise (Abraham's bosom).

Yours and His,
David

Good catch!
One of my favorite parables in the NT/NC of the Bible


NKJV) Luke 16:22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom.
The rich man also died and was buried.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

 

[Tim Myers]

I have always wondered, "Would Christ have actually used the word paradise?"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I have always wondered, "Would Christ have actually used the word paradise?"

Jesus uses it in Revelation 2:7

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
("paradise")
occurs 3 times in 3 verses in the KJV

Reve 2:7 The one having ear let hear! what the spirit is saying to the Outcalleds.
To the one conquering/overcoming, I shall be giving to him to be eating out of the wood of the life which in *midst of the paradise/paradeisou <3857> of the God

 

[Tim Myers]

Rather than writing something I will regret later, I will simply withdraw the question.....

 

[Brak]

Scripture should drive our views--not our views drive our interpretation of Scripture. For that reason, I have always believed that the thief on the Cross is enough proof that a) soul sleep does not exist, and b) Jesus did NOT go to Hades, except possibly as a visitor. If He did go, He went in the same manner as the governor would visit our prison system escorted and wearing full coat-and-tie. Either way, Jesus went to Heaven when He died and revealed Himself as the Prince of Peace to the thief on that day.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

I have seen this rendered "I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."

I struggle not to snicker envisioning Jesus pause after "today," and in His Passion and suffering, carefully monitoring His breath and accent to place a comma into His phrase.

When people suffer, their prose suffers also. Words are gasped out, growled.

The thief, for his part, would seem quite patient to hear in his own suffering, this promise of eternal life in Paradise. Apparently he was too shy to ask "um, when dude?" I think it was as clear to the thief as it is to us without a soul sleep doctrine to defend:
When Jesus said "today" He meant that day.

 

[Blind As A Bat]

Paradies? Are you telling me a thief and Jesus went and made a parody of something?

 

[cubinity]

That would be awesome.
Jesus' sarcasm would blow us all away!

 

[St_Worm2]

Lamb, I've just gotta ask, what is that thing??

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Lamb, I've just gotta ask, what is that thing??

Tis my own version of the EO's battlefield Church Transport

http://www.christianforums.com/t7381773-6/#post52248967
Russion Orthodox Military Mobile Battlefield Church Transport

 

[St_Worm2]

Tis my own version of the EO's battlefield Church Transport

http://www.christianforums.com/t7381773-6/#post52248967
Russion Orthodox Military Mobile Battlefield Church Transport

I'm laughing so hard, I can barely respond. Thanks Little Lamb, you made my day ..

--David
p.s. - I hope you don't mind if I forward both pictures to a few of my friends.

 

[Blind As A Bat]

I'm laughing so hard, I can barely respond. Thanks Little Lamb, you made my day ..

--David
p.s. - I hope you don't mind if I forward both pictures to a few of my friends.

Sounds like you would like this thread:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7548716/

 

[Isolation]

Hey Isolation, read this: The Rich Man & Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) ... about Hades and Paradise (Abraham's bosom).



Along with the passage from Luke 16, also read The Fifth Seal (Revelation 6:9-11). Do the dead seem conscious or unconscious to you?

Yours and His,
David

Hello. The parable is speaking of the future, not present tense. The fifth seal is speaking of when the Lord came at the seventh trumpet and resurrected them. I do not know your beliefs but when we die we wait till the last trumpet as Paul states, then the Lord will call up those who are asleep in his salvation. If you read your revelations verse it says that those who are to be martyred will join them soon. But yes although Christians will be through out the seven trumpets and some past into the bowls of plagues, they will be martyred. Then as you know instead of sleeping they will be caught up in 'a twinkling of an eye.'

The notion of people going to heaven or hell upon death is interpretable errors. Those who will go to hell are those who get judged at the end of time. It would be unfair, to burn people before judgment. In like manner how can anyone be in heaven if they still have not been resurrected?

I will bring up verses if I need to. Please look up things that I said in scripture!

 

[St_Worm2]

Sounds like you would like this thread:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7548716/

Man, I putt'n that one in my Internet Explorer "Favorites". That is TERRIFIC CD. Thanks!! ..