Luke 20:27

[nick garai]

I read this verse recently and thought wow this cannot be Jesus speaking. Can anyone please comment on this verse regarding His character It almost sounds like something out of the Koran.

Here is the verse:

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me."

 

[Hoshiyya]

I read this verse recently and thought wow this cannot be Jesus speaking. Can anyone please comment on this verse regarding His character It almost sounds like something out of the Koran.

Here is the verse:

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me."

I've been thinking about that verse ever since I started studying the parable described in that chapter (19).

It sounds a bit more like something he might say in the book of Revelation. But then again, let me ask, do you believe in hell ?
Isn't hell actually worse than what is described here in Luke 19:27 ?

Christianity traditionally has assumed that you either go to hell, or you go to heaven, and there is no inbetween or neutral position. Islam picked up on that, and developed it, but is essentially identical to traditional Christianity when it comes to offering "submission or hell".

 

[Lulav]

For those who are looking this up for study it is Luke 19:27 not 20:27

 

[Lulav]

I read this verse recently and thought wow this cannot be Jesus speaking. Can anyone please comment on this verse regarding His character It almost sounds like something out of the Koran.

Here is the verse:

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me."

Hi Nick good to see your smiling face again!

I think we should remember to not be fooled by teachers that only want to teach that Jesus is all about love and that's all you need. Remember he told them this, that he had not come to bring Pearce, but rather a sword, disruption between families on those divided on who he was.

This was a bout his kingship.

Those in charge liked their positions, but that doesn't speak to all of Israel, but sadly their shepherds who were obviously bad shepherds over the people. They really weren't doing G-ds work but compromising and in bed with Rome.

But they shouted, "Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!"

"Shall I crucify your king?" Pilate asked.

"We have no king but Caesar," the chief priests answered.


So this was a warning to them as Yeshua knew what they would do. But they did it anyway.

 

[dfw69]

Christians are to live in peace and love all mankind until the return of Christ...no and if or buts

But it no secret when messiah returns he will sit in judgment and separate the sheep from the goats....yeshua does not kill for the sake of killing...but will judge in righteousness....by the law of sowing and reaping ...peace

 

[AbbaLove]

I read this verse recently and thought wow this cannot be Jesus speaking. Can anyone please comment on this verse regarding His character It almost sounds like something out of the Koran.

Here is the verse:

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me."

According to the sequence of events assume His words (Luke 19:27) were spoken in a moment of total frustration to those that sought to kill Him. It must have been VERY frustrating, to say the least, as Yeshua would have been the best King they could have ever hoped for and yet He was dispised and rejected.

Matthew 23:37 NJV
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

John 19:15 NKJV
15 But they cried out, “Away with Him, away with Him! Crucify Him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar!”

 

[Hoshiyya]

Yes but I think the point is,
why is not wanting to be ruled over by Yeshua a crime ?

Let's say you are Japanese and you consider the Tenno emperor a god, or at least, you are perfectly satisfied with your own emperor, regardless of whether he is a god.
Or let's say you are Egyptian, and you are perfectly satisfied being ruled over by the god-pharaoh.
Or let's say you are Finnish, and you are perfectly satisfied ruling over yourself in the forest.
Why should that constitute being an "enemy" to Jesus ?
And why should that merit death ?
Where in the Torah is that found ?

Is Yeshua only considering the Jews who don't want him to be THEIR king as "enemies" ?
That's much easier to understand from Torah.
David would likely have done the same: if some Israelites were rebelling or challenging his kingship, in Israel proper, he'd neutralize the threat.

And yes, so would the Muslim rulers as well, or any ruler that actually wants to rule.

 

[visionary]

There is quite a few references of this line of thinking .... It is a solution ... Question is "Is it God's?"

1 Samuel 11:12 The people then said to Samuel, "Who was it that asked, 'Shall Saul reign over us?' Turn these men over to us so that we may put them to death."

Yeshua used it in the parable.

Matthew 22:7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

Bottom line, it is hatred that causes the contention.

Luke 19:14 "But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'

It is again the parable of if God's earth is not loved by those who do not love Him, then He will have others take care of it.

Luke 20:16 He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others." When the people heard this, they said, "God forbid!"

 

[Hoshiyya]

There is quite a few references of this line of thinking .... It is a solution ... Question is "Is it God's?"


Yeshua used it in the parable.

Bottom line, it is hatred that causes the contention.
It is again the parable of if God's earth is not loved by those who do not love Him, then He will have others take care of it.

So let's say you are Finnish, and you are perfectly satisfied ruling over yourself in the forest.
Should that constitute being an "enemy" to Jesus ?

Or does it only refer to those Jews who reject Yeshua as king ?

 

[visionary]

So let's say you are Finnish, and you are perfectly satisfied ruling over yourself in the forest.
Should that constitute being an "enemy" to Jesus ?

Or does it only refer to those Jews who reject Yeshua as king ?

IN the immediate, I would say "to those He was speaking to" but as always the words of Yeshua resonate throughout the centuries and apply to all the earth and all that are His.

 

[Hoshiyya]

IN the immediate, I would say "to those He was speaking to" but as always the words of Yeshua resonate throughout the centuries and apply to all the earth and all that are His.

You know that doesn't really answer me.

Let's say you are a Finnish person, sitting in your forest, not wanting to be ruled over by anyone.
Are you an enemy of Yeshua, based on that alone ?
You're not a Jew or Israelite as far as anyone can prove, you have no relationship to the people who were there at Sinai, no relation to or knowledge of any covenant.

Muslims may say he is an enemy of Islam and in disobedience to the self-evident Allah and the self-evident Shaaria that any man should be able to know about. But is that in the Torah ?

 

[ContraMundum]

I read this verse recently and thought wow this cannot be Jesus speaking. Can anyone please comment on this verse regarding His character It almost sounds like something out of the Koran.

Here is the verse:

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me."

It's a line from a parable. A character in a story is saying that to illustrate a point. Read it as a parable. It's not a command to kill, nor is it saying that God wants to kill either. Read the whole parable carefully and the comparison to the Koran dissolves.

 

[Hoshiyya]

It's a line from a parable. A character in a story is saying that to illustrate a point. Read it as a parable. It's not a command to kill, nor is it saying that God wants to kill either. Read the whole parable carefully and the comparison to the Koran dissolves.

Who does the character represent in the parable though ?
And the people he is talking about, who do they correspond to in reality ?
Saying "it is just a parable" doesn't explain it away. The only way to make it innocuous is to explain it in an innocuous way.

Muslims say "break the cross, kill the pig".
OK, could be worse, right ?
But if you understand that "the cross" means Christians, and "the pig" means Jews, it matters.

 

[visionary]

That is a God question.. for no man can read the heart like He can.

 

[Hoshiyya]

That is a God question.. for no man can read the heart like He can.

Well here is what I asked:
Let's say you are a Finnish person, sitting in your forest, not wanting to be ruled over by anyone.
Are you an enemy of Yeshua, based on that alone ?

(underlined for emphasis)

But, if you want, let me rephrase it.

If I sit on my balcony in let's say France, am I a threat, or an enemy of any kind, to a king on the other side of the world, on THAT BASIS ALONE ?
Should he, being rational and logical and full of mercy, want to KILL me for sitting on my balcony nibbling my croissant au chocolat ?

People typically only impute that form of megalomaniac madness to two subjects: Iran, and God. Ironically. And I doubt it actually applies to either of them.

 

[visionary]

Well here is what I asked:
Let's say you are a Finnish person, sitting in your forest, not wanting to be ruled over by anyone.
Are you an enemy of Yeshua, based on that alone ?

(underlined for emphasis)

But, if you want, let me rephrase it.

If I sit on my balcony in let's say France, am I a threat, or an enemy of any kind, to a king on the other side of the world, on THAT BASIS ALONE ?
Should he, being rational and logical and full of mercy, want to KILL me for sitting on my balcony nibbling my croissant au chocolat ?

People typically only impute that form of megalomaniac madness to two subjects: Iran, and God. Ironically. And I doubt it actually applies to either of them.

Without evidence I can not form an opinion.

 

[Hoshiyya]

evidence of what?

Based only on the information provided, should the ruler from the other continent, logically, want to kill the Frenchman on his balcony ?

Obviously, no.
The Frenchman hasn't hurt a fly.

If the Ayatullah wants to kill you just for sitting on your balcony a million miles away, that makes the Ayatullah a madman, and we all know it.

 

[cyberlizard]

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=luke 19 archelaus&f=false

 

[Lulav]

I think the problem here is you are trying to compare earthly kings with the King of the universe.

You are trying to find gray areas when there are none.

Yeshua also said using no characters in a parable:

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathers not with me scatters abroad.

and

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Both of these are along the lines of his namesake Joshua who said

But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

 

[terryjohn]

The seriousness of rejecting the lordship of Christ is of a greater nature than having never heard of His lordship. What can a man who has rejected Gods claim do and where can he go having no power of his own?