Lucifer.... The route of evolution???

[galapagoschange31]

We all know that god created the world in 7 days. While all of us here accept this as fact, there is no denying that some hell bound souls still believe in the myth of evolution. Could all beliefs of evolution spawn from Satan?

This may seem crazy at first but hear me out. In the Bible, when Lucifer first appears under the Book of Genesis in the story of Adam and Eve 3:1 it states

Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden '?"

Notice how Satan is in serpent form? However, in the book of Peter 5:8 it says:

Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

Notice how it seems that Satan has evolved into a lion from the previous story?Now we all know serpents are the spawn of the devil, however could it be that other creatures stem from this being, such as giant reptiles thousands of years ago, and that this 'evolution' theory could just be a few creatures, descended from Lucifer, who have come to lead others from the word of the Lord?

As the Book of the Corinthians 11:3 proclaims:

But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

What are your thoughts on this theory?

 

[originofthebeagle1835]

Hi galapagoschange31,

I too have seen the form of Satan change over the course of the Bible's teachings, and I too have thought about its' implications from both a theological and a scientific standpoint - obviously the seemingly "free" form Lucifer is able to adopt at will is a clear representation and link to the idea that so-called evolution could change an organism in such a short time.

That being said, I also feel like many of the phrasings in the Bible are not to be taken literally. After all, many advanced English Language devices such as metaphors and similes are used to describe different ideals and morals through way of story. While it may be entirely true that the described changes in Satan's physical form are merely comparisons to his possible material state, I think that the underlying message is very clear.

Any theologist more qualified than myself would be able to tell you that, while Satan's likeness throughout the Bible is often a comparison to other, unrelated themes, everything in the Bible has a hidden meaning. Even the stories that are supposedly meant to teach you a lesson have many secondary and tertiary meanings and principles that would be easily missed by the untrained eye. Is it possible that, when the Bible was written, evolution had already been observed by God to be a deceitful way for Lucifer to dilute our more pure beliefs? Absolutely. It is undeniable that evolution was alluded to in the Bible with very clearly negative connotations.

Cheers!

 

[galapagoschange31]

Hi OrigionoftheBeagle1835,

Thank you for your reply! While do have to agree with your philosophy of not taking everything literally in the bible, i would also have to agree with your part on how the underlying meanings of the text often have more to do with the word of god than what the text explicitly denotes.

It is in this part that gives me reason and speculation to believe that these creatures most likely stem from Satan. For how could one reasonably dismiss the blinding fact that most who believe in evolution also do not believe in the rise and fall of our saviour Jesus Christ and therefore advocate the teachings of the Devil
?

On the subject of not taking the Bible literally; when the Bible was first written, it is very likely that the scripture inside was pure of metaphors and similes as we know in the English language, for such things were not invented yet, but over the years this holy book we know has been tampered with by humans possessed by the devil and whole chapters changed, therefore while the story as a whole is unchanged, not one single line of the holy scripture can be taken literally anymore.

Do you think it is possible for Satan's evolution to have affected plants, therefore causing the results seen in certain scientific experiments done on plants that point to the idea of evolution?

 

[originofthebeagle1835]

I think it would be preposterous to think that the afflictions of Satan haven't affected the development of the plant world; common examples would have to be marijuana, psilocybin mushrooms and salvia. These hallucinogenic plants have very devilish uses in today's modern societies, and surely God would not have placed them on Earth as they are now without the unsolicited help of Satan himself.

The theory of Evolution suggests that many organisms have become ready for the evils of their environments; poison dart frogs, puffer fish, snapping turtles, and sharks are good examples of where nature hides its' evils. The fact that these animals must defend themselves from certain death is no doubt the work of Satan himself, and if evolution is in fact a real thing then it must be induced by Lucifer himself as organisms could only evolve to become more evil.

"Science", or so they call it, perpetuates the very image of Satan as it allows for the more efficient use of evil. A very good argument for this idea is the development of war over the centuries of human existence: the spear gave way to the arrow which gave way to the bullet which gave way to the bomb which gave way to the guided missile and ballistic missile. Humans have "evolved" to become more and more evil, a clear representation that evolution and Satan are very closely related.

 

[galapagoschange31]

That's some pretty interesting points you've made there.

Perhaps the 'evolution' of mankind into more and more sinful creatures isn't in fact the consequence of direct contact with the devil, but in fact a derivative of a chain reaction of events that have all spawned from this 'evolution'.

The first and most obvious example of this is that the changing the animals of this earth through evolution, this caused some unsuspecting humans to take notice and write scientific papers on this, thus causing the birth of 'science'. This then blossomed into what we know to be the root cause of most modern evil on this planet- spanning from atomic bombs to the attempts to resurrect people without consent from the father. No doubt the minor branchings from this such as marijuana and other such principles have helped guide human kind into the arms of the devil.

 

[originofthebeagle1835]

I completely agree with you. I would love to hear the opinion of some of our other member here though. I feel like this is a great subject to cover in a community like this!

 

[galapagoschange31]

Yeah. Where are all of the other members??

 

[OldStudent]

If you are a Republican are you an elephant? If you are a Democrat are you a donkey? God spoke to Balaam through a donkey does that make Him a …?

At times God and Satan have used intermediary fronts. At times nations are represented by animals – the American Eagle. Sometimes an animal characteristic is descriptive – He’s a weasel, she’s catty. I don’t think what you are looking is in any sense an “evolutionary” progression.

 

[originofthebeagle1835]

Hello OldStudent,

While the representation of different entities through beings other than those that are human can be given as a counter-argument for said link between evolution and Satan's representation, that is clear speculation.

It is important to remember that this discussion is purely speculative and therefore must be treated as such. Yes, there is a possibility that there is not link at all. But at the same time, it is equally as possible that the link is very much real.

The fact that Satan is given in different animal forms is obviously not to be interpreted in a physical sense. We are merely discussing the possible correlation between the ever-changing form of Lucifer and the similarly ever-changing form that organisms have through way of evolution as presented to us by "scientists" of our modern era.

It's definitely a very interesting topic!

 

[OldStudent]

Hello OldStudent,

While the representation of different entities through beings other than those that are human can be given as a counter-argument for said link between evolution and Satan's representation, that is clear speculation.

It is important to remember that this discussion is purely speculative and therefore must be treated as such. Yes, there is a possibility that there is not link at all. But at the same time, it is equally as possible that the link is very much real.

The fact that Satan is given in different animal forms is obviously not to be interpreted in a physical sense. We are merely discussing the possible correlation between the ever-changing form of Lucifer and the similarly ever-changing form that organisms have through way of evolution as presented to us by "scientists" of our modern era.

It's definitely a very interesting topic!

Does the idea that Lucifer may be in a cycle of reincarnations fit your hypothetical story?

 

[galapagoschange31]

Hi OldStudent,

It may but as we all know, the devil, like god, cannot be created or destroyed (except by God) so therefore the idea of reincarnation is absurd. This makes it more likely that he has 'evolved' the beings he possesses and this has transferred into 'science' and this is how the modern weapons of today have been created.

 

[OldStudent]

Hi OldStudent,

It may but as we all know, the devil, like god, cannot be created or destroyed (except by God) so therefore the idea of reincarnation is absurd. This makes it more likely that he has 'evolved' the beings he possesses and this has transferred into 'science' and this is how the modern weapons of today have been created.

Your line of logic escapes me.

As I have given consideration to the purposes of history here are some bullet points:

At some point Lucifer desired power and position he was not qualified to hold. He was given opportunity to demonstrate what he would do with power and position.

National histories are the record of his experiments in governmental forms.

Though God has a preferred governmental form, other forms can be functional. What really matters is the nature of the human heart.

Biographies are studies alternative lifestyles.

Some general, broad observation concludes that:

The mindset of God’s love is out going, others serving.
Alternate mindsets tend to be incoming and self serving.
​

For most of the timeline of the history of sin access to refined use of nature was withheld. Given the nature of the fallen human heart the world would have become uninhabitable in just a few decades. Indeed, in the relatively few recent decades the Earth is driving itself to oblivion – the natural path of the broken soul.

The evolution of weapons is merely an expression of the heart made visible. Weapons become a tool for extending the will of some over the will of others - a trait of Satan since he started his con-game with the angels.

 

[JojotheBeloved]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']"I would love to hear the opinion of some of our other member here though.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Yeah. Where are all of the other members??"[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']May I join this conversation, guys? For the sake of clarity, I will try to make my thoughts brief and to the point. I will also address particular statements that have already been made, in an effort to be on point. Please take all of my comments as my own belief/opinion and please understand that I desire to be honest but respectful.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']"Could all beliefs of evolution spawn from Satan?...[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Notice how it seems that Satan has evolved into a lion from the previous story?...[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']What are your thoughts on this theory?"[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I honestly get a little lost in your train of thought, but from what I understand of your posts the original question has two parts. First part seems to be "Could all beliefs of evolution spawn from Satan?" The second seems to be more along the lines of does Satan's animal form actually evolve in Scripture and does this mean that Satan controls the actual evolution of animals in our world and makes specific animals inherently evil. Is this correct? If I misunderstood, please let me know. But for now, I will give my thoughts based on the assumption that this is what you were originally asking.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']In short my opinion is this: To the first question, I don't know. To the second, not in the way you seem to be speculating. The following is my reasoning why.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Part 1 of original question: The reason I can't say for certain that all beliefs of evolution do spawn from Satan is that I can't say for certain that God did create the world in 7 actual days as we experience day units now. Yes, the account in Genesis does outline a 7 day time frame from sunset to sunrise every day. However, in Job God puts Job in his place by asking him a series of questions about how the world was made. But Job doesn't have the answers. The context seems to point to why Job is not able to answer - because God asks, "“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?" If we're being honest, we don't know how the world was made. We take it on faith that the information provided is correct and that we are interpreting it correctly. But we weren't there to witness it and thus can't testify to its correctness, except to testify about the character of God as we know Him personally and trust Him. But even so, He has not revealed to us more than we need to know to get the point of the story - salvation. And the Bible is written predominately as a story - a story with a point, with a moral, an overarching salvation theme. I do believe evil has influenced human belief systems and perverted them from what God consistently has told every generation is true in regard to the nature of God's own character. So it is not far fetched to think Satan has also had a hand in the development of beliefs relating to evolution theory. But I wouldn't go so far as to say all belief regarding the theory is inherently evil or of Satan, because we do observe minor adaptation in our natural world. Which takes us nicely to part 2 of the original question.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Part 2: Does Satan's animal form actually evolve in Scripture, and does this mean that Satan controls the actual evolution of animals in our world and makes specific animals inherently evil? I do not believe this is true for several reasons.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']First, is evolution theory apparent in Satan's animal form in Scripture, as it changes throughout the Bible stories? No. That theory is pure speculation. I respectfully disagree with it having any biblical merit. I suppose the fun thing about speculation is you can theorize whatever you want, but the Bible would have to be chopped up into isolated verses in order to support the theory - which is not honest or respectful exegesis/interpretation. The reason the descriptions for the devil change depending on the Bible story is because each Bible author was writing to a specific audience within their own time and culture. There are often deep meanings and principles that we may still derive from these stories in our time, but we must keep in mind that the author was trying to make a point. Often the best way to get an idea across to an audience is to wrap it up in a story, like children's story at church. We tell these stories because we can relate to them and understand them and as the moral of the story unfolds we begin to understand the deeper meaning behind it as well. Different people relate to different images in various ways. So to get the point across, I believe God used multiple images in nature that people were and are familiar with. I believe the point in most of those images was that there is an evil adversary and he is dangerous. There's no evidence of evolution inherent in these images, nor is there a recognizable pattern of such.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Second, this theory makes a lot of logical jumps. A lot of things you assume to be commonly accepted facts are not actually such. For example, "[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']We all know that god created the world in 7 days. While all of us here accept this as fact, there is no denying that some hell bound souls still believe in the myth of evolution." I already discussed how we do not KNOW God created the world in 7 days as we define days now. We trust that He did. Also, for those who do not accept our theory of creation, I do not agree that they are necessarily hell bound. That is an illogical jump - and a rather judging/condeming one at that. "[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Notice how it seems that Satan has evolved into a lion from the previous story?" No, it's an added description of the same thing, not an evolved form. The text doesn't even say that Satan took any form at all in reference to the lion, it only makes a comparison of two alike things. And it's speaking to the character of the person of Satan rather than the physical form. "[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Now we all know serpents are the spawn of the devil, however could it be that other creatures stem from this being, such as giant reptiles thousands of years ago, and that this 'evolution' theory could just be a few creatures, descended from Lucifer, who have come to lead others from the word of the Lord?" It is not logical that serpents are the spawn of the devil, because God created the serpent in Eden which the devil used. God did curse the serpent as a result of its useage by evil, but the Bible says it was one of God's most wonderful creatures to begin with. According to the Bible, Satan is not the originator of anything apart from pride and evil intent. There is no biblical record to my knowledge of Satan creating anything. Thus, logically, no animals can be the "spawn" of Satan if Satan does not create new forms of life. That is not to say that evil is not a part of the natural world as much as it is a part of our current human nature and civilizations, but that would not be unique to any particular animal life. "[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']It is undeniable that evolution was alluded to in the Bible with very clearly negative connotations." Show me from Scripture where this is true. I don't see the logic. It's an assumption, until it is proven. "W[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']hen the Bible was first written, it is very likely that the scripture inside was pure of metaphors and similes as we know in the English language, for such things were not invented yet" I do not know where you got this idea, but it's false. When the Bible was first written it had even more metaphors than it does now translated in English. Humanity has not changed much in as many thousands of years since the tower of Babel and language is always given meaning by cultural context. People used metaphors and object lessons from their cultural context to communicate in their own languages even in biblical times. We just may not understand those metaphors since we live in a distinctly different cultural context than they did. Anyway, there are more places continuing the conversation where you both have made references to assumed truths that I don't see the logical connection, but I'll leave it at those examples for now.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Finally, my biggest reason for disagreeing to the way your theories interpret and apply biblical images of the devil is that you give the devil way too much credit - to the point where your devil is bigger than your God. The Bible is unclear about a lot of things, but it is clear on a few things that are very important. One of those things, I believe, is the overarching message throughout all the stories that no matter what the devil may try to do, God will put a stop to it. God is always in control, God is always bigger, better, and more bad-ass (pardon please, but I can't think of a better way to say that part). God is always victorious and He has our back! To make your concept of the devil larger and more powerful than your concept of God is the very definition of idolatry. Every idol puts itself in the place of God, tries to overshadow or push out God from our lives, and ultimately causes its worshipers to live in fear. I refuse to accept any theory which negates, ignores, or belittles the power of God in our world. In my opinion, this theory paints a picture that gives the devil more power than God in our world. Maybe I misunderstand you and if so, please correct my perception. The devil does not own these images you speak of either. All the images used are merely that - images - nothing more. It is how they are used that gives them meaning to people. Yes, the Bible says the devil is like a roaring lion, but it also says that Christ is the Lion of Judah (Revelation 5:5). You see, the one gives us power to overcome the other. One may prowel and seek the weak whom he may devour, but the other devours the enemy no matter how strong he may seem.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[JojotheBeloved]

Oh no! I'm sorry for the wierd formating.