Lucid dreaming... Is it wrong?

To Angelfrog and whoever doesn't know what lucid dreaming is: It is NOT safe or cool. This is not sleep dreaming but a type of "dreaming" whereby a person ON PURPOSE puts their mind in a state to get an out of body experience. Its called astral projection and new agers/occultists practice it.

Maremma said:

Licidity in dreams is not necessarily "astral projection". It can be simply becoming consciously aware of the activities of your subconscious mind. .

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But the person who started this thead has stated that he does this on purpose. Not accidentally. He says he is "inducing" them and they it is "cool and fun."

sk8Joyful said:

Non-sense. Complete nonsense!

Lucid-dreaming, & Astral-projection, are 2 completely different skills, & abilities.

to the OP, do not listen to nonsense.

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Nonsense? The OP is the one who is complaining about fleshly urges and feels convicted by doing it.

Life2Christ said:

To Angelfrog and whoever doesn't know what lucid dreaming is:

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You need to read the previous post:
1. the BIBLE clearly spells out, what ghosts to Stay-away from, & avoid.
&
2. God/Jesus also clearly taught us to make excellent uses of our own mind

Please learn the Operative...difference, between
being-controlled , vs. and Controlling yourself

sk8Joyful said:

You need to read the previous post:
1. the BIBLE clearly spells out, what ghosts to Stay-away from, & avoid.
&
2. God/Jesus also clearly taught us to make excellent uses of our own mind

Please learn the Operative...difference, between
being-controlled , vs. and Controlling yourself

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If what you say is true...do you, as a Christian, want to practice what people in other mystical religions do? I know I don't. The mind is notoriously untrustworthy, that is why we have Jesus on our side. Guarding the mind (which is biblical) is crucial to walking with Christ. And let's be scientifically honest, lucid dreaming may happen when sleep is induced but more commonly, it is induced when the person is wide awake (which is why its a popular activity).

Life2Christ said:

Nonsense?
The OP is the one who is complaining about fleshly urges, and feels convicted by doing it.

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Yes, and as I told him already, he should not be doing it;
UNTIL such time that
he makes to the decision to control himself. At which time, LUCID-dreaming is a fine skill, also used by athletes...
often.
Shall we (to satisy comfuzled christians) now BAN the Olympic-games epitome of mind/body control, too.
I think not!

Life2Christ said:

To Angelfrog and whoever doesn't know what lucid dreaming is: It is NOT safe or cool. This is not sleep dreaming but a type of "dreaming" whereby a person ON PURPOSE puts their mind in a state to get an out of body experience. Its called astral projection and new agers/occultists practice it.

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Just a quick comment- I would never advocate astral projection (nicknamed 'oobe') in a million years, nor have I ever tried to do any such thing. I'm very aware of what it is, (silver cord connections- the lot)- and have known since long before I became a Christian.
In fact I have explained what it is to others in conversation (mostly in my uni days) and also its connections with new age/ occult practice.

Maybe I gave the wrong idea when I said although it was claimed that one can't turn lightswitches on or use mirrors in dreams- I can. That isn't through any deliberate decision on my part- it simply happens to be what I dream- eg, I may dream that I'm walking into a room, turning on the light and going to find something. In a recent dream I was in a bathroom when I looked in a mirror and realised I had an awful lot of freckles and started counting them. ( I don't know why- that's just what I dreamt!)

When I spoke of not being able to lucid dream- I merely meant that I just dream what I dream and am never aware of it being a dream whilst I'm doing so. When I said that my son does- I meant that he is able to recognise often that he is dreaming whilst in the dream and has been able to make a decision to wake up and has done so. Nothing more sinister than that. He doesn't seek to do so- he just knows he's dreaming in the same way that he knows he's awake during the day.

I was using the term 'lucid' in its literal sense- as in an understanding/ perception of being in a dream. Nothing more than that.

Life2Christ said:

If what you say is true...

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it is, true ... next question?

Life2Christ said:

do you, as a Christian, want to practice

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I, as a Christian
(read here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7540525/ where I define Christianity,
as one

of Jesus' followers, a Christian fundamental, & nondenominational. - do practice Christianity, as just this.

Life2Christ said:

The mind is notoriously untrustworthy,

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say what! - You propose telling God:
"Hey, Dad, you made a notoriously-baaad mistake, in
creating our mind so phenomenally-powerful" <- Try telling God that.

Life2Christ said:

that is why we have Jesus on our side.
Guarding the mind (which is biblical) is crucial to walking with Christ.

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Sigh -
you know?? - GOD (who created our soul+mind+body in the 1st. place), &
sent us to earth to LEARN... how to use our soul+mind+body,
to PRAISE God, for His Honor & Glory), why would this same GOD
then tell us "No, no! I made a mistake. Hide my Light under a bushel.
Never!! ever! use these skills & abilities. I want you to remain a mushroom..."
That sort of 'christianity' is about as UNbiblical as you're gonna get.
No wonder, more young people are leaving churches, over such profound nonsense!

Life2Christ said:

And let's be scientifically honest

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Kewl, what about the science of 'meta physics' do you wanna be honest about?
This should be fun... what do you wanna discuss 1st.

There is nothing supernatural in a naturally occurring human function - dreaming. Dreams where we are in a semi conscious state continue to be just dreams, although in such a case with a partial but low key normal involvement.

John
NZ

If it is Astral projection you are attempting to achieve, it is a really unusual thing, as it is also considered an out of body experience. Because it was created by the new age group, and occults, it shouldn't be practiced. It is not something that your brain does naturally. Its normal to go into a state of dreaming, that shouldn't be confused with this.

You have to train your mind and learn, to get to the level of Astral projection, like a fortune teller looks into a crystal ball. When you attempt to control your own spirit, things can easily get dangerous. I wouldn't encourage it, especially with the warning "for those who can handle it, its really cool." We aren't made to practice such things, that's why its hard to handle it. You are becoming totally vulnerable to spirits that are feeding you the ability to achieve such things, and when you ask someone who teaches on the topic, they will tell you to pray and ask for protection from God, and the angels before you do it. That alone tells me that there is something involved with the practice that puts ones self in danger of being attacked spiritually, and would be like praying for help before you do something that God forbids, witchcraft, occults... Hebrews 10 26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Maremma is right, not all dreams that you feel you are in control of are Astral Projection. What separates them are, you know how to prepare yourself, and are attempting to achieve to get to the level where you can control them consciously, tricks to train yourself, sleeping on your back, and the other things you mentioned, those things make it sound like you prepare yourself to go into a state of mind where you are in control of them, when you are in a regular dreaming state, you do not need to prepare yourself, and they just happen. God can speak to you in your dream but you are in a state of mind that you are allowing Him to use you in a way that He sees fit, if its waking one up from a nightmare, or showing you something in a dream, if we are willfully, and attempting to be in total control, we can push God out of a dream all together.

What if God wants to show you something in your dream, but you are busy doing your own agenda with controlling it? Think about what you would be missing out on? God shows many things to people in their dreams. Sometimes, He will show you the way you need to go in life, or give you an answer to something you have been praying about, or show you something. God has shown me a lot of things through dreams. I wouldn't want to miss it doing my own thing.

Life2Christ said:

To Angelfrog and whoever doesn't know what lucid dreaming is: It is NOT safe or cool. This is not sleep dreaming but a type of "dreaming" whereby a person ON PURPOSE puts their mind in a state to get an out of body experience. Its called astral projection and new agers/occultists practice it.

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Hey, I've just tuned in but it seems you don't fully understand what lucid dreaming is and/or what the OP originally said. There is a huge difference between the two. Angelfrog seems to have the crux of what it is but just to clarify: Lucid dreaming is when you become aware that you are dreaming, within the dream. Being aware makes it possible for your mind to alter the dream world around you and what happens in it. Astral projection however is when you leave your body in an awakened- but deliberate trancelike state and have an out of body experience. People that practice astral projection just leave their bodies, they can't alter the world around them.You have to be awake to astral project and you have to be asleep to lucid dream, therefore they are both very different. Lucid dreaming is a natural thing to do with the subconscious, only astral projection is to do with new age, occult practices.
Many people on this thread seem to think that when the OP said control, it means control like you would control something in real life. It's completely different in a dream, you can think of just being in a castle, but your subconscious randomly selects what the walls are made of, what the carpets look like, who inhabits it etc. An example: once I had a dream that I needed to escape from a room, the single thought of escape sparked my subconscious to do lots of weird stuff. Suddenly a strange flamey golem creature wearing a cooking apron with "kiss the cook" written on it appeared asking me where someone named wolfey was and offering to give me a boost in order to escape the room! The subconscious is very random, it's not like you think up exactly what happens and what you want to do (though that is possible if your will is strong enough) it's more influencing than controlling.

As to the original poster, I wouldn't stop lucid dreaming altogether, just maybe pray for more self control. Lucid dreaming is a wonderful thing so it would seem a waste to stop doing it if you can induce lucidity.

Crespo, I really wouldn't worry about dreaming things like that. It's only natural to dream of "fleshy urges", especially if you're young and most of the time it's just your subconscious. It is in no way your fault and it is not a sin. And it would be quite different in reality, I doubt you would just throw yourself at a girl if left alone. Just relax, it's perfectly fine and it doesn't make you evil.

Those who teach Astral projection believe that, it doesn't matter how you access the astral. You can do it with a full body roll-out via vibrations, or you can do it by becoming lucid in a dream and taking conscious control. Either way will still require that the physical body be sleeping.

I'd like to hear from the OP to see exactly how he gets to the point where he feels like he is having a lucid dream, it sounds like he prepares for them from what he has shared thus far, but he very well could not, and its just a dream that I'm sure most have had before, where you feel as if you are in control. People encourage lucid dreams, it's when you practice any type of occult behavior associated with it that separates the two.

I was raised by parents that practiced the occult witchcraft and astral projection too. My parents tried to force me to learn this "skill". I can promise you that I indeed am well aware of the difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming, EVEN when we prepare ourselves and learn to deliberately control a dream.
Astral projection is NOT a state of "sleep". It is far closer to a comatose state. The further away from the body the person travels the deeper the "coma state".
If I lit a match and put it to this kids foot I can guarantee you he would FLY out of his bed and into conscious reality in a real big hurry. My mom put a flame to my dads foot while he was doing this and he didn't so much as flinch. His foot blistered and he knew NOTHING until he "returned".

God used visions,dreams and out of the body experiences in the past with prophets. So they're not evil by themselves but rather the purpose you use them for. Use lucid dreaming to experience God instead of using it for fleshy desires.

To add to this discussion, I am not convinced that even the alleged bible accounts of "lucid dreaming" were induced by the dreamer. I am inclined to believe that the Lord and His Spirit causes us to dream, as he caused a deep sleep to come over Adam.

I don't see how this is different from witchcraft, astral projection, traveling, etc. You don't have to see demons and experience "scary" things in order to experience the spiritual "dark world". The devil or the enemy however you call him just wants to see a peak of curiosity into his world. That's why this is so deceptive. May the Lord Jesus rescue to a safe place all who are involved in this!

faithgirl37 said:

To add to this discussion, I am not convinced that even the alleged bible accounts of "lucid dreaming" were induced by the dreamer. I am inclined to believe that the Lord and His Spirit causes us to dream, as he caused a deep sleep to come over Adam.

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I agree that the 'lucid dreamings' of the bible were not induced by the dreamer but by God, but what i wanted to say was that these visions, lucid dreams whatever you want to call it were not evil by themselves, but rather the purpose they are used for. If you use them to search for the occult, without searching for God as in new age or wicca then it is not right, but if you use lucid dreaming to search for God then it is right.

preston08 said:

For those that don't know, lucid dreaming is when u become aware they u are dreaming, and u can control the dream.

It's really cool and fun, but often when I do it, my most primal fleshly urges come thru, and the dream turns sexual.

Can u sin in a dream? Should I stop inducing lucid dreams altogether?

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I can't really control my dreams to such an extent. I can see why you'd ask if you should stop instead of just stopping. It sounds so freeing. I think you should stop inducing lucid dreams for a while and see if your dreams are still sexual... I'm not sure either way if having sexual dreams is wrong... especially as in both cases you are not particularly choosing to have them.

My PE teacher says sexual dreams are for the body's release lol so maybe you can't really help them.

***Jamey*** said:

I'm not sure either way if having sexual dreams is wrong... especially as in both cases you are not particularly choosing to have them.

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Well i believe having sexual dreams is not sin just as getting sexual thoughts from the enemy is not sin. What is sin is to when you yield to both of them. You are not choosing to have them conciously but subconciously you are, that's a bondage of lust that has to be broken.

***Jamey*** said:

My PE teacher says sexual dreams are for the body's release lol so maybe you can't really help them.

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you can't help them but Jesus can; sexual dreams are temptations of the enemy.

kranberrydude said:

you can't help them but Jesus can; sexual dreams are temptations of the enemy.

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That's just silly.

John
NZ

kranberrydude said:

I agree that the 'lucid dreamings' of the bible were not induced by the dreamer but by God, but what i wanted to say was that these visions, lucid dreams whatever you want to call it were not evil by themselves, but rather the purpose they are used for. If you use them to search for the occult, without searching for God as in new age or wicca then it is not right, but if you use lucid dreaming to search for God then it is right.

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How can you be sure? 2 Corinthians 11 - in particular...

11:3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness.