Lost my faith

[iwishiwerejesus]

I have been a christian most of my life. At one point I believed in God 100%. Now my faith has dwindled. I have asked myself many questions.

1. Why does God expect his children to know which religion to follow when there are so many and not all can be correct.

2. Why would a sinful christian who kills and hurts people go to heaven and be forgiven when a kind atheist person does good deeds.

3. Why would an all loving God punish his children for not believing in him when it is very difficult to believe in him if you have an open mind and see the evidence against him.

4. One who turns a blind eye to science is ignorant. One cannot ignore the facts of evolution and the age of the earth.

5. Why does the bible teach such compassion and kindness but yet preach about non-believers in christ as burning in hell in the lake of fire. This doesn't show the very purpose of the bible.

I'm starting to believe that God made the universe and set things in motion and then left man alone to let his own sin become his demise.


So you're telling me if I don't believe in the bible based on my own mind that god gave me and reasoning, he will punish me because I used what he gave me? Why should I be punished for not believing in something because of the brian he gave me? Why are babies born atheist?

 

[fluffy_rainbow]

1. Why does God expect his children to know which religion to follow when there are so many and not all can be correct.

God didn't invent religion - man did.

2. Why would a sinful christian who kills and hurts people go to heaven and be forgiven when a kind atheist person does good deeds.

A would hasten to say a Christian would not kill or hurt people. If they repented and never did those things again, they would be saved just as the kind atheist.

3. Why would an all loving God punish his children for not believing in him when it is very difficult to believe in him if you have an open mind and see the evidence against him.

1. Not believing doesn't require an open-mind. It requires a lack of faith just big enough to let satan get a foot-hold and cause you to doubt.
2. There is no evidence against Him. That is satan's deception.

4. One who turns a blind eye to science is ignorant. One cannot ignore the facts of evolution and the age of the earth.

*coughs* The Bible and science go hand in hand, regardless of what non-believers say.

5. Why does the bible teach such compassion and kindness but yet preach about non-believers in christ as burning in hell in the lake of fire. This doesn't show the very purpose of the bible.

Because hell is a reality. If there was no eternal consequence of living the life separated from God, we would all be out doing whatever we want and living a life without faith.

 

[iwishiwerejesus]

God didn't invent religion - man did. "

The bible is supposed to be the word of god. Then how could the bible be written by man?

So your saying that a good atheist will get into heaven too? But how? It says clearly in the bible the only way to heaven is through Jesus.

 

[Blackmarch]

I have been a christian most of my life. At one point I believed in God 100%. Now my faith has dwindled. I have asked myself many questions.

1. Why does God expect his children to know which religion to follow when there are so many and not all can be correct.

Or that God expects his children to search and ask him to direct them to what is right. and then trust him.

2. Why would a sinful christian who kills and hurts people go to heaven and be forgiven when a kind atheist person does good deeds.

Why should they?, that may be a general view for looking at some verses a certain way, but in the the end, it's mans translation/view of them, which is probably flawed.

3. Why would an all loving God punish his children for not believing in him when it is very difficult to believe in him if you have an open mind and see the evidence against him.

He wouldn't, or at least not till after they know they've had the truth and have rejected it.

4. One who turns a blind eye to science is ignorant. One cannot ignore the facts of evolution and the age of the earth.

No kidding. Science would be one of God's tools, which does not exclude God from working miracles, nor does it exclude things like evolution.

5. Why does the bible teach such compassion and kindness but yet preach about non-believers in christ as burning in hell in the lake of fire. This doesn't show the very purpose of the bible.

Is everything in the Bible?, Also how many Bible verses are viewed and accepted is based upon religious creeds, which were formed by man.

I'm starting to believe that God made the universe and set things in motion and then left man alone to let his own sin become his demise.

Partly true, However God is still around, and he does influence things, but if we want his help, we need to actively seek him.

So you're telling me if I don't believe in the bible based on my own mind that god gave me and reasoning, he will punish me because I used what he gave me? Why should I be punished for not believing in something because of the brian he gave me? Why are babies born atheist?

NO, he wants you to use and magnify the gifts you have. If you haven't found him nor rejected him, how can you be punished or rewarded? Once you find him, and then reject him, then you merit punishment.

 

[Cerberus~]

*coughs* The Bible and science go hand in hand, regardless of what non-believers say.

Only if you don't take the Bible litterally.

Because hell is a reality. If there was no eternal consequence of living the life separated from God, we would all be out doing whatever we want and living a life without faith.

It would appear that you and I worship different Gods.

 

[psalms 91]

you have been around the unbelievers on this board to much. remember why you believed, when you heard from god, build your faith back and stay in christians only boards from now on for awhile. pray again where you speak and then you take time to listin. seek him and you will find him again.

 

[Cerberus~]

you have been around the unbelievers on this board to much. remember why you believed, when you heard from god, build your faith back and stay in christians only boards from now on for awhile. pray again where you speak and then you take time to listin. seek him and you will find him again.

He has 3 posts, I don't he's been anywhere here for too long.

And sheltering himself around yes-men and ppl that just agree with him, that's not going to solve anything. His doupt are very reasonable doupts. And his points are valid.

 

[mepalmer3]

I have been a christian most of my life. At one point I believed in God 100%. Now my faith has dwindled. I have asked myself many questions.

I just finished a pretty good book -- "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist" by Norman Geisler. It's a pretty funny title. But in all seriousness, there is quite a bit of really good evidence for God, for Jesus, for his resurrection, etc... In my bit of work within the church, I do see quite a lot of people who seem to try to do christianity all on faith. And as the atheists/agnostics point out, I think this is a pretty poor reason to believe in anything. Then when someone sharper comes along with some difficult questions, the faith that's not grounded in real evidence/reasons for believing often will get blown away. (I'm not saying this is what happened with you, I'm just saying I see it happen fairly often.)

There is a wealth of great apologetics books that give great reasons to believe. Granted, nothing every PROVES christianity. But, the evidence seems strong in it's corner. This is much easier to find out if you happen to read a lot of apologetics.

 

[Thor11]

...and stay in christians only boards from now on for awhile.

In other words, close your mind and never listen to an opposite arguement. That's sure does work!

 

[iwishiwerejesus]

I've been trying to find God. I know how much he loves me and Jesus wants to save me but it's hard sometimes to keep the faith. Sometimes I know theres a god and other times I doubt. I started to read up on an atheist message board and for every defense I put out they tear it to shreds. Perhaps it's because there are 10 atheists for every theist on that board and my faith was diminished. However, I will continue to strive to overcome my own intellect. I've been the best person I can in life and I truly hope God is out there. Ever since I've been doubting god, my life has become more depressing and I feel it has no meaning and when I read the bible, I instanty feel better. The Bible seems to lift me up and comfort me. I hope one day I will get to see ya'll in heaven. You all are good people. I hope whatever god is up there, that is fair and just and that we will spend the rest of eternity in his presence .


Take care!

 

[HouseApe]

I have been a christian most of my life. At one point I believed in God 100%. Now my faith has dwindled. I have asked myself many questions.

1. Why does God expect his children to know which religion to follow when there are so many and not all can be correct.

2. Why would a sinful christian who kills and hurts people go to heaven and be forgiven when a kind atheist person does good deeds.

3. Why would an all loving God punish his children for not believing in him when it is very difficult to believe in him if you have an open mind and see the evidence against him.

4. One who turns a blind eye to science is ignorant. One cannot ignore the facts of evolution and the age of the earth.

5. Why does the bible teach such compassion and kindness but yet preach about non-believers in christ as burning in hell in the lake of fire. This doesn't show the very purpose of the bible.

I'm starting to believe that God made the universe and set things in motion and then left man alone to let his own sin become his demise.


So you're telling me if I don't believe in the bible based on my own mind that god gave me and reasoning, he will punish me because I used what he gave me? Why should I be punished for not believing in something because of the brian he gave me? Why are babies born atheist?

iwishiwerejesus,

God was created in the mind of man at a time when man knew very little about the world. Christianity came about during the Roman empire. A time when a vast number of different religions were competing for influence and converts. Paul, the founder of Christianity, knew how to create a successful religion. It took 4 simple ingredients:

1. What do you get if you believe? Eternal life of happiness in heaven.
2. What happens if you don't? Eternal torture in Hell.
3. What do you have to do? Simple, just be sorry and accept Jesus.
4. But how do you know for sure? You can't, God wants faith.

Understand these things and it is easy to answer your questions.

Most people are introduced to Christianity as children. The things you learn to believe as a young child are very difficult to let go of. It is time to let go of this childhood story.

 

[Dave H]

I have been a christian most of my life. At one point I believed in God 100%. Now my faith has dwindled. I have asked myself many questions.

1. Why does God expect his children to know which religion to follow when there are so many and not all can be correct.

James 1
5If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. 6But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; 8he is a doubleminded man, unstable in all he does.

2. Why would a sinful christian who kills and hurts people go to heaven and be forgiven when a kind atheist person does good deeds.

Romans 10:9-10
9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

3. Why would an all loving God punish his children for not believing in him when it is very difficult to believe in him if you have an open mind and see the evidence against him.

What is the evidence against Him?

2 Peter 3:9
9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance

4. One who turns a blind eye to science is ignorant. One cannot ignore the facts of evolution and the age of the earth.

We should not turn a blind eye to science...

5. Why does the bible teach such compassion and kindness but yet preach about non-believers in christ as burning in hell in the lake of fire. This doesn't show the very purpose of the bible.

Because God is just.

I'm starting to believe that God made the universe and set things in motion and then left man alone to let his own sin become his demise.


So you're telling me if I don't believe in the bible based on my own mind that god gave me and reasoning, he will punish me because I used what he gave me? Why should I be punished for not believing in something because of the brian he gave me? Why are babies born atheist?

See #1

 

[warispeace]

Because hell is a reality. If there was no eternal consequence of living the life separated from God, we would all be out doing whatever we want and living a life without faith.

Do you realize what you're saying? So you're admitting that the only reason to be a Christian is because of rewards and punishments? That's not a very moral system. A person should do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because he's being coerced.

I find the idea of someone's religion being the only thing that gives them any kind of moral guidline truly frightening.

 

[mepalmer3]

A person should do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because he's being coerced.

I find the idea of someone's religion being the only thing that gives them any kind of moral guidline truly frightening.

I agree with the first part. I think fluffy_rainbow was describing justice though. We can't by any measure have respect for a law giver that doesn't enforce any sort of justice. It's like a parent who refuses to discipline their kids.

With your second comment... Do you find the idea of man making up an arbitrary & subjective morality better? Christianity and many religions in general speak of god being the moral law giver, which of course means that there really is a moral law. I think most of us, when honest, admit that some things truly are wrong, and some things truly are right. Without some sort of moral law giver and object moral law though, then we're left to developing morality ourselves. At this point we're no longer discussing something that really is moral or not, we're discussing what people's preferences are. Subjective/man-made morality just doesn't seem to be worth anything. It means stuff like Hitler wasn't actually doing anything wrong. It was his morality -- and who's to judge between us? There is to be no judge unless there's an actual moral law.

 

[iwishiwerejesus]

Answer me this. How do humans and animals have a conscience? If you think about it, how could morals come from nothing? Why do we know what is right and wrong? These are almost like inscribed laws in the minds of all creatures. God must have been the one to inscribe this in us. You can't get morals and ethics from nothing.

 

[HouseApe]

I agree with the first part. I think fluffy_rainbow was describing justice though. We can't by any measure have respect for a law giver that doesn't enforce any sort of justice. It's like a parent who refuses to discipline their kids.

With your second comment... Do you find the idea of man making up an arbitrary & subjective morality better? Christianity and many religions in general speak of god being the moral law giver, which of course means that there really is a moral law. I think most of us, when honest, admit that some things truly are wrong, and some things truly are right. Without some sort of moral law giver and object moral law though, then we're left to developing morality ourselves. At this point we're no longer discussing something that really is moral or not, we're discussing what people's preferences are. Subjective/man-made morality just doesn't seem to be worth anything. It means stuff like Hitler wasn't actually doing anything wrong. It was his morality -- and who's to judge between us? There is to be no judge unless there's an actual moral law.

Morality is subjective regardless. The fact that you take an old book and claim that it represents the will of God is a subjective decision on your part. Maybe it is the will of God and maybe it isn't. You can't prove it one way or another. And different peoples have different old books that they subjectively claim is the will of their god(s).

The fact that almost all of us find certain behaviours to be objectionable can be better explained by the Theory of Evolution than by some supernatural good guy.

 

[HouseApe]

Answer me this. How do humans and animals have a conscience? If you think about it, how could morals come from nothing? Why do we know what is right and wrong? These are almost like inscribed laws in the minds of all creatures. God must have been the one to inscribe this in us. You can't get morals and ethics from nothing.

Human beings evolved as highly social animals. Humans had to live as part of a group to survive. In order for the group to survive, humans had to evolve powerful instincts to keep the group cohesive. How do you keep the group cohesive:

1. By protecting group members, not killing them.
2. Sharing your bounty with others, not stealing from them.
3. By loving and respecting other group members as you would like them to love and respect you.

The list goes on, but these things are necessary for most social animals.

It is important to realize that just because you don't understand how something can happen, doesn't mean you should assume God did it. If you do that, everytime you learn that God didn't do it, your faith will be knocked down a bit.

 

[mepalmer3]

Morality is subjective regardless. The fact that you take an old book and claim that it represents the will of God is a subjective decision on your part. Maybe it is the will of God and maybe it isn't. You can't prove it one way or another. And different peoples have different old books that they subjectively claim is the will of their god(s).

The fact that almost all of us find certain behaviours to be objectionable can be better explained by the Theory of Evolution than by some supernatural good guy.

There's no reason to suspect that we ought to trust any notion of right/wrong that evolution might produce in us. Also, there's no reason to suspect that we should feel any notion of right/wrong unless there really is a right/wrong. It's similar to how if we're hungry then there's a pretty good chance that something called food really exists.

And you're right -- none of us can prove any of this. It just seems far more likely that there really is a right/wrong. All people seem to react to moral issues as if there is a true right/wrong. So if there's a real right/wrong, and it's something separate from me, then it points to some sort of moral law giver, some sort of mind that wants us to act in a certain way.

 

[warispeace]

I agree with the first part. I think fluffy_rainbow was describing justice though. We can't by any measure have respect for a law giver that doesn't enforce any sort of justice. It's like a parent who refuses to discipline their kids.

With your second comment... Do you find the idea of man making up an arbitrary & subjective morality better? Christianity and many religions in general speak of god being the moral law giver, which of course means that there really is a moral law. I think most of us, when honest, admit that some things truly are wrong, and some things truly are right. Without some sort of moral law giver and object moral law though, then we're left to developing morality ourselves. At this point we're no longer discussing something that really is moral or not, we're discussing what people's preferences are. Subjective/man-made morality just doesn't seem to be worth anything. It means stuff like Hitler wasn't actually doing anything wrong. It was his morality -- and who's to judge between us? There is to be no judge unless there's an actual moral law.

You're talking about two different things here. Individual values are not the same as society's moral standards. A lot of people seem to be confusing the two. Individual values are completely relative-- I can't tell you that my values are any better than yours. The only way to measure which is 'good' and which is 'bad' is to compare them to our society's moral standard. If we all are supposed to have some kind of externally-given morals, wouldn't everyone's standards be the same? Wouldn't everybody in the world think it's wrong to kill cows or eat pork or have two wives?

The reason that Hitler was able to do so much damage was not because of his personal values. In a heathy society he would have been locked up [again.] It was because his society was so twisted to see violence and racism as perfectly normal that he could do the things he did. In Nazi Germany, showing compassion and mercy could be considered deviant behavior. Personal values only have meaning in the context of your own society.

 

[mepalmer3]

Human beings evolved as highly social animals. Humans had to live as part of a group to survive. In order for the group to survive, humans had to evolve powerful instincts to keep the group cohesive. How do you keep the group cohesive:

1. By protecting group members, not killing them.
2. Sharing your bounty with others, not stealing from them.
3. By loving and respecting other group members as you would like them to love and respect you.

The list goes on, but these things are necessary for most social animals.

You're speaking about instincts. And instincts are different from morality. Morality tells us which instinct to follow when we're forced between differing instincts. And often the weakest of the instincts is the one we know we should obey. So we sort of "talk ourselves" into going with the weaker instinct. This encouragement can't be the instinct itself, so it's some sort of morality code that we're vaguely aware of.