Losing your salvation, what does this entail Scripturally?

[tomarnold]

Now I know some of you all will say it is impossible despite some Scriptures warning us of it, please refrain from debating that you absolutely cannot in this thread.

There are really a few parts to this thread:
1. Backsliding
2. Returning
3. Unforgivable


Please provide Scripture for your veiwpoints.

 

[Hammster]

Huh?

 

[nobdysfool]

Nothing like trying to stack the deck at the front.....

 

[tomarnold]

No input yet I see.

 

[Hammster]

No input yet I see.

"Huh?" was shorthand for "I don't know what you are asking". I thought that was generally understood. My apologies.

 

[tomarnold]

"Huh?" was shorthand for "I don't know what you are asking". I thought that was generally understood. My apologies.

In the OP is said the question is pertaining to input/insight into the unforgivable and also backsliding/ repentance.

What exactly is your question?

 

[Hammster]

Are you wanting to know what those three things mean?

 

[tomarnold]

Are you wanting to know what those three things mean?

What do they mean, exactly how does one attain to them, and other insight.

 

[Hammster]

I guess no one else understands, either. Maybe you should start.

 

[heymikey80]

Now I know some of you all will say it is impossible despite some Scriptures warning us of it, please refrain from debating that you absolutely cannot in this thread.

There are really a few parts to this thread:
1. Backsliding
2. Returning
3. Unforgivable


Please provide Scripture for your veiwpoints.

God denying you. 2 Tim 2:13
Jesus never knowing you. Mt 7:23
God ceasing to love you. Rom 8:39

 

[Corallary]

heymikey80, I think Romans 8:39 and 2 Timothy 2:13 are not the correct versus for the viewpoints which tomarnold initially asked for.

2 Timothy 2:13 says, "If we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot deny himself". This means that God wouldn't deny us, even though we may deny him because it is uncharacteristic of God to oppose His true loving nature; He loves us unconditionally and therefore He will not deny us.

Romans 8:39 says "Neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord". This verse does not state that God will cease to love anyone. It expounds on the infinite capacity of God's love and the fact that nothing can separate us from Him. How is this verse related to the idea of God ceasing to love us then?

 

[tomarnold]

God denying you. 2 Tim 2:13

If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.
​

Please explain how you intepret this verse in order to conclude that it that it is pertaining to God denying someone.​

Jesus never knowing you. Mt 7:23

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

If your response was chronologically designed, would you then assume this pertains to "returning"? Are you implying that someone could not enter into a state of prodigal to begin with?​

God ceasing to love you. Rom 8:39

nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There are Scriptures that deal with unforgivable, this is not one of them.
​

​

 

[heymikey80]

heymikey80, I think Romans 8:39 and 2 Timothy 2:13 are not the correct versus for the viewpoints which tomarnold initially asked for.

Hm, well, a question is implicitly open-ended as to what viewpoints are being asked-for.

2 Timothy 2:13 says, "If we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot deny himself". This means that God wouldn't deny us, even though we may deny him because it is uncharacteristic of God to oppose His true loving nature; He loves us unconditionally and therefore He will not deny us.

Well, yes; but the explanation is really contained in what God is saying would be the condition.

Not to deny what I think you're saying, but 2 Tim 2:12 can be translated "deny", and in that case there's something whereby our committed denial of God would indeed draw a denial from God. The question there is whether someone who relies on God in the first place, is capable of rejecting or denying God as at 2:12. I don't think that's the case.

When 2:13 shifts to a faltering of faith, that does not draw a rejection from God.

Romans 8:39 says "Neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord". This verse does not state that God will cease to love anyone. It expounds on the infinite capacity of God's love and the fact that nothing can separate us from Him. How is this verse related to the idea of God ceasing to love us then?

Well, it's the condition the OP asked for ...

 

[heymikey80]

Just to clarify: I'm pointing out the conditions that Scripture states would logically result in a loss of salvation. I'm not pointing out the actions that a saved person would engage in that Scripture concludes would lose their salvation.

 

[Corallary]

Just to clarify: I'm pointing out the conditions that Scripture states would logically result in a loss of salvation. I'm not pointing out the actions that a saved person would engage in that Scripture concludes would lose their salvation.

But where in the scripture does it state that God's wrath is different for the non-believers than the former believers? Does His grace extend not to the Jews as well as the Gentiles? In the same way, I'd think that anyone who experiences loss of salvation, whether claiming to be formerly Christian or no, would be dealt with in the same way as any non-believers by God.

There are times when Christians may fall from God's grace because they sin. That's a completely different scenario. Ultimately, if "Christians" reject Christ and veer away from Him then they are no longer Christians in God's terms, are they not? Loss of salvation would mean, I think, exactly that, loss of salvation.

 

[heymikey80]

But where in the scripture does it state that God's wrath is different for the non-believers than the former believers?

Well, 2 Tim 2:13 would be one. "If we are faithless, he will remain faithful; he cannot deny himself."

Does His grace extend not to the Jews as well as the Gentiles? In the same way, I'd think that anyone who experiences loss of salvation, whether claiming to be formerly Christian or no, would be dealt with in the same way as any non-believers by God.

God's grace is extended as He sees fit, and His grace does affect how He evaluates people. "Grace" is "unmerited favor". So the change in judgment is inevitably not merited by the person who receives vindication (justification) from God.

There are times when Christians may fall from God's grace because they sin. That's a completely different scenario. Ultimately, if "Christians" reject Christ and veer away from Him then they are no longer Christians in God's terms, are they not? Loss of salvation would mean, I think, exactly that, loss of salvation.

Um, I haven't noticed a place where Scripture says a fall from grace occurs whenever a Christian sins. God's certainly aware that His people sin. The preaching of Christianity is God's forgiveness of sins. So the issue does not appear to be clear-cut in Scripture, that each sin would cause God to disown his child.