Losing salvation vs. once saved always saved

I hope this helps a little bit

Matthew 5:48 - Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

1 Corinthians 10:13 - There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Therefore if you are a true born-again Christian you shouldn't sin ever again, I realized this a couple days ago and have truly confessed about how terribly wrong I have been, and now realize that the true way of happiness is following God's Ten Commandments and inviting Christ to take over my life.

God Bless!

cloud0729 said:

I hope this helps a little bit

Matthew 5:48 - Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

1 Corinthians 10:13 - There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Therefore if you are a true born-again Christian you shouldn't sin ever again, I realized this a couple days ago and have truly confessed about how terribly wrong I have been, and now realize that the true way of happiness is following God's Ten Commandments and inviting Christ to take over my life.

God Bless!

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Cloud, i couldn't disagree with you more. Thanks for posting your opinion though. Our hearts are continually wicked all the time. No one has been sinless except Jesus Christ. And no one can just decide one day they are going to follow Jesus perfectly AND ACTUALLY DO IT. Otherwise, you wouldn't need Christ after you accepted his sacrifice on the cross.

I don't have the time to look up all the verses but you can't just take 2 verses out of the Bible like you did and form your theology around it. You must look at ALL of Scripture and what it says about the character of God and what it says about the character of man.

I spent many years thinking i had to be perfect to earn God's love and yet i kept failing and so i kept feeling horrible. I STILL think this way at times. But i'm quickly learning that every good deed i do, good thought i think or good word i say is b/c of Christ's spirit inside me and every bad deed i do, bad thought i think or bad word i say is because of my sinful nature (the old man) giving in to the temptations of satan and the lust of the flesh

Praise Jesus that he is our constant advocate at the throne of God. Please do not believe you can decide to follow Christ flawlessly from any point on forward to your death. If you do, you will encounter frustration, anxiety and despair that you have never imagined. You will not measure up. You cannot measure up.

God Bless.
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Sorry, I see that I should have gave a little better explanation of what I was talking about. You're absolutely right, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God", except Jesus Christ. We cannot overcome sin on our own, and that's why we have to surrender our life to Jesus so that he may change our hearts.

In Matthew 19:16-26, a man comes up to Jesus and asks him what he has to do to inherit eternal life. He told him what he had to do and told this rich man to go sell his things because he was very attached to his materialistic items. Then after the man walked away in sorrow, Jesus' disciples asked him how is it possible to be saved then because we tend to rely on material items instead of God. And Jesus responded saying, "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

After someone comes to God and repents and invites Him to come into our hearts and change us, we become a new person. 2 Corinthians 5:17 - "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

The "old man" that you refer to is the person we are before we are before we are changed. The main reason many people seem to fall into sin is because they rely on their selves to overcome it, instead of relying on God's Holy Spirit. Through the grace of God, we can overcome sin and walk in the spirit and not fulfill the lust of the flesh. We also cannot expect God to completely get rid of temptation because then we couldn't show Him our love by following His commandments. He will never make you tempted enough to not handle it, so in essence when you sin it's because you wanted to. As previously written:
1 Corinthians 10:13 - There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

God Bless

MarkEvan said:

First let me say that I have enjoyed studying this with you, I know that you are a believer who takes love as the utmost importance and therefore allthough we may alter in beliefs in this small way we are agreed and together on the important things, the same I can also say of you Chris413 (if you are reading this)..

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Hi Mark,

Just a quick note to tell you again, brother, what a blessing you have been to me.

I have prayed and studied on this and even though my beliefs have not changed on the matter, I do agree with you that Pastor Chuck could have taught Hebrews 10:29 much more deeply than he did in that particular study.

MarkEvan said:

As to the eternity together to discuss these things, I think that by then we will know the answer, as God Himself will have revealed it to us on the day of judgement, so there will be other things that we can discuss.

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How wonderful will this be! Everyone together in perfect harmony in the presence of God! Where the joy of each heart is to worship and serve Him! (I'm thinking my singing voice might even be pleasant )

MarkEvan said:

I will exhort us to continue in faith working through love.

Mark

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Cris413 said:

How wonderful will this be! Everyone together in perfect harmony in the presence of God! Where the joy of each heart is to worship and serve Him! (I'm thinking my singing voice might even be pleasant )

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Amen!!!

John 1:10
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
Once saved always saved, you can leave God and sin.
But if you repent your sins and ask for forgiveness, your back in buisness.
Gods love
Buck

Show me in the Pure Holy Bible where any single Christian Lost their salvation.
Ya can't,because it did not happen.

Salvation is not grounded upon you.
The grounds for salvation and the seal is all of God.
*******
PeterAV

Can I jump in with a question?
Supposed you have been saved.
Now consider:
Matthew 12:31 (NIV)
"And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."
And Mark 3:29 (NIV)
"But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
So, keeping OSAS in mind, can a saved person who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit lose salvation?
I'm not sure myself. The verses speak of not being forgiven. Is losing salvation the same as not being forgiven?
Sorry if I'm missing the obvious (I'm a very new to Christianity), but I do struggle with things like OSAS.

MatthewR said:

Can I jump in with a question?
Supposed you have been saved.
Now consider:
Matthew 12:31 (NIV)
"And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."
And Mark 3:29 (NIV)
"But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
So, keeping OSAS in mind, can a saved person who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit lose salvation?
I'm not sure myself. The verses speak of not being forgiven. Is losing salvation the same as not being forgiven?
Sorry if I'm missing the obvious (I'm a very new to Christianity), but I do struggle with things like OSAS.

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I personally don't believe you can "lose" salvation. However, I do believe you can reject your salvation.

I won't go into detail, but I had a friend, who I considered to be an awesome believer. Tragedy struck his life. Unbearable tragedy and he with his lips and in his heart rejected God. He renounced God in his anger over his circumstance. This really frightened me, especially because my friend did not have long to live.

I can not say with 100% certainty that he lost his salvation, but my fear was that this was indeed the unforgivable sin.

I would also like to think, for my friends eternal soul, that he had renewed his faith before he finally died.

I do not know what happened after the last conversation we had as it was by phone separated by 1500 miles. He had made up his mind there was no God and he did not want to talk about it again.

I prayed and prayed for him. My heart is very heavy for him to this day but I will not know for sure what his eternal destination was until I get there.

Some would question whether he was saved at all. That his tragedy did not bend his knee but broke his back. My feeling is that a true believer will rely on God even more heavily during tragic times...not turn away completely. Only God truly knows the condition of our hearts.

God bless you and keep growing in the Word!

Cris

Can I jump in with a question?
Supposed you have been saved.
Now consider:
Matthew 12:31 (NIV)
"And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."
And Mark 3:29 (NIV)
"But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
So, keeping OSAS in mind, can a saved person who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit lose salvation?
I'm not sure myself. The verses speak of not being forgiven. Is losing salvation the same as not being forgiven?
Sorry if I'm missing the obvious (I'm a very new to Christianity), but I do struggle with things like OSAS.

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*******
This is not possible,for the one doing the unpardonable sin is displaying their unbelief in the first place.
It is a permanent disposition against the working of the truth of God.
The scribes and Pharisees did what they did with knowledge.
Would any saved person say that Jesus did his miracles by the power of belzebub?
Don't think so.
So nether can a saved person commit this unpardonable sin of blashemy against the Holy Ghost..

I know I said I had said all I was going to say on this, but I have been moved to respond to this.

MatthewR said:

Can I jump in with a question?

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Always, it is the only way to grow.

MatthewR said:

Supposed you have been saved.
Now consider:
Matthew 12:31 (NIV)
"And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."
And Mark 3:29 (NIV)
"But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
So, keeping OSAS in mind, can a saved person who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit lose salvation?
I'm not sure myself. The verses speak of not being forgiven. Is losing salvation the same as not being forgiven?
Sorry if I'm missing the obvious (I'm a very new to Christianity), but I do struggle with things like OSAS.

Click to expand...

PeterAV said:

*******
This is not possible,for the one doing the unpardonable sin is displaying their unbelief in the first place.
It is a permanent disposition against the working of the truth of God.
The scribes and Pharisees did what they did with knowledge.
Would any saved person say that Jesus did his miracles by the power of belzebub?
Don't think so.
So nether can a saved person commit this unpardonable sin of blashemy against the Holy Ghost..

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I'm not sure that the first is a true statement PeterAV, it is very conceivable that some one as Cris413's friend was a true believer that was not equipped as Paul told the Ephesians to be in Eph 6:12-20.
When the tribulations came, as they always will, Satan's words can weasel their way into the mind and lead us to reject what we know to be true. We also know that if we accept again that truth we are no longer guilty of the sin of rejection. My hope is that anyone that comes under that kind of spiritual attack while they are faced with some tragedy can be reached and my prayers go out for them.




The scribes and Pharisees had not committed blasphemy against the Holy Ghost by saying what they did against Jesus. If it were the case then Peter would have bought it three times before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crowed. Matthew 12:32 gives him and them a reprieve:


Mat 12:32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.


What is the Holy Ghost?


Jhn 15:26¶But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.


Jhn 16:7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.


It appears that the only sin that is unpardonable is to reject the gift given to us all from the Father, through his Son. No true believer can lose his salvation, To be forgiven we need only ask under the conditions laid out in the gospels ie: In the faith that Jesus is our Lord and Savior, confessing our sins.


Us rejecting it is the only way to miss out.


Pastor Chuck Smith has a lengthy commentary on this available on Blue Letter Bible here.


MatthewR, Brother in Christ Jesus. This is kind of a long winded way to say that losing salvation and not being forgiven are two very different things. As you can tell by the length of the answer and the the length of this thread, it is not a very obvious thing, it is something believers struggle with. Welcome brother, drink deep of the word. Study. Be always joyous in Jesus.




God Bless


BustedFlat

MatthewR said:

Can I jump in with a question?
Supposed you have been saved.
Now consider:
Matthew 12:31 (NIV)
"And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."
And Mark 3:29 (NIV)
"But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
So, keeping OSAS in mind, can a saved person who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit lose salvation?
I'm not sure myself. The verses speak of not being forgiven. Is losing salvation the same as not being forgiven?
Sorry if I'm missing the obvious (I'm a very new to Christianity), but I do struggle with things like OSAS.

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What a good question.
Tell me Brother. Have you ever tried to blaspheme in this way? Surely you could not do it. Why? Because you *are* saved!
But consider for a moment that you could lose your salvation. Then don't you think the spilling of the precious blood of Jesus would be worth? It would be worthless would it not? Do you think that can be? It cannot!
You have nothing to fear, except perhaps your own doubts. You have not been saved for long. You have much to learn and it is only to be expected that some things may be hard to grasp. But you are in the best of places here, where you can ask your questions and get great answers.
But never forget that your are saved!

From personal experience, i believe in the fact that you can lose your salvation, seeing as i think i lost mine. i was a very strong christian, but within the last year i have lost my faith, partly because i am angry with god, but mostly because i don't want to be grouped in with christians, because they are all judgemental jerks (or at least all the ones i know).

IrishGuy070890 said:

From personal experience, i believe in the fact that you can lose your salvation, seeing as i think i lost mine. i was a very strong christian, but within the last year i have lost my faith, partly because i am angry with god, but mostly because i don't want to be grouped in with christians, because they are all judgemental jerks (or at least all the ones i know).

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Oh the irony.

IrishGuy070890 said:

From personal experience, i believe in the fact that you can lose your salvation, seeing as i think i lost mine. i was a very strong christian, but within the last year i have lost my faith, partly because i am angry with god, but mostly because i don't want to be grouped in with christians, because they are all judgemental jerks (or at least all the ones i know).

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Have faith in Christ, not christians.

If you have been truly saved and have repented of you sin, you cannot lose God's forgiveness. You cannot lose your salvation. NOTHING can separate us from the love of God. Jesus said it best on the cross.. IT IS FINISHED. Once you accept His gift of life, He will never take it back.

For those that think you can lose your salvation, do you think Jesus' sacrifice was not enough and that we must earn our salvation? Is God not gracious enough???

How many sins is too many? Are we covered by the blood of Jesus, or are we not?

If you have been truly saved and have repented of you sin, you cannot lose God's forgiveness. You cannot lose your salvation. NOTHING can separate us from the love of God. Jesus said it best on the cross.. IT IS FINISHED. Once you accept His gift of life, He will never take it back.

For those that think you can lose your salvation, do you think Jesus' sacrifice was not enough and that we must earn our salvation? Is God not gracious enough???

How many sins is too many? Are we covered by the blood of Jesus, or are we not?

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So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."

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Matthew 18

This verse quite clearly says that if a believer does not forgive his brother from his heart neither will God forgive him.

For those that think you can lose your salvation, do you think Jesus' sacrifice was not enough and that we must earn our salvation? Is God not gracious enough???

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God is clearly gracious enough, but I think people can fall back in love with the world.

Mark

Once saved all ways saved.
The thing after being saved is repenting and asking for forgiveness

PeterAV said:

*******
This is not possible,for the one doing the unpardonable sin is displaying their unbelief in the first place.
It is a permanent disposition against the working of the truth of God.
The scribes and Pharisees did what they did with knowledge.
Would any saved person say that Jesus did his miracles by the power of belzebub?
Don't think so.
So nether can a saved person commit this unpardonable sin of blashemy against the Holy Ghost..

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Good point!

IrishGuy070890 said:

From personal experience, i believe in the fact that you can lose your salvation, seeing as i think i lost mine. i was a very strong christian, but within the last year i have lost my faith, partly because i am angry with god, but mostly because i don't want to be grouped in with christians, because they are all judgemental jerks (or at least all the ones i know).

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quotes from Ribbers,

From personal experience, i believe in the fact that you can lose your salvation, seeing as i think i lost mine. i was a very strong Christian, but within the last year i have lost my faith, partly because i am angry with god, but mostly because i don't want to be grouped in with Christians, because they are all judgemental jerks (or at least all the ones i know).

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And you sound like the consumat gentleman yerself.
Let him that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Only the LORD knoweth them that are his.
We are to go by the fruit of a person's life.
Plus there are many signs in the Holy Bible that can point us to the truth,simply because
Thy word is truth.
I trust God's word,that he states that I am secure in him.