Looking for new denomination....

[wpiman2]

My fiance and I are looking into a new denomination. We were both raised Catholic and we have been turned off to the Catholic church.

Having grown up in the church: we find a lot of comfort from the Catholic traditions.

What denominations have similar traditions: ie. Eucharist, saints, trinity, etc....but have managed to loose the pedophilia and don't bash gays: at least not openly.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

My fiance and I are looking into a new denomination. We were both raised Catholic and we have been turned off to the Catholic church.

Having grown up in the church: we find a lot of comfort from the Catholic traditions.

What denominations have similar traditions: ie. Eucharist, saints, trinity, etc....

Hi,

I'm not trying to "raid" the RC Chruch; but have you looked into confessional Lutheranism. I has been a good fit for a number of Catholics who have tried to reconcile their faith with Scripture. (Martin Luther for example).

We acknowledge the real presence in the Eucharist, and our teaching on baptism and confession and absolution are identical to the RC Church.

Most of our Congregations (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod and Lutheran Church Canada) use a formal liturgy. The Lutheran Mass (or as most call it "Divine Service" is for the most part the same as the Mass that your are familiar with. There are a number of different settings which can be used. Some you may find even more "traditional" than the Novis Ordo.

There are also some liberal Synods which may appear orthodox, but doctrinaly are not since they are in fellowship with the Presbyterians and Methodists who do not hold to the Real Presence, but do hold to predestination.

We believe in the Trinity, and confess the same three Creeds as the Roman Church; Apostles, Nicene(used during Mass), and Athanasian, (occasionally used in the Daily Office, and used on the Feast of the Holy Trinity).

We do not ask for the Saints to intercede for us, since that is Christs purpose. We do however commemorate the Saints, and many of the Old Testament Patriarchs and Matriarchs as well. We also commemorate some reformers and theologians, artists, hymnographers that came after the Reformation such as Luther, Andreae, J. S. Bach.

We observe advent, Christmas, Ephifany, Lent, Penticost etc. Also a lot of other festivals such as Transfiguration, Baptism of our Lord, Visitation, Announciation St. Michael and All Angels, etc.

We only ordain men, and they are free to marry.

Since Scripture condemns homosexuality, the Church must also, just as it must condemn stealing, lying and adultry. It is the sin that is dispised, not the sinner. That being said, if one is unrepentant and reveling in their sin, then it is still the responsibility of the Church to maintain order and discipline.

Why don't you come by and check us out. Theologica Crucis is the main forum for both liberal and confessional Lutherans, and we welcome friendly discussion and even a bit of debate (unlike some other forums that I know of). There are also two sub-forums; one for liberals the other for confessionals. These are a good place to go for more denominationaly specific info.

Here is a link to TLC, stop by and say hello! (we also get a fair few Catholics just stopping in for a bit of fellowship since we have so much in common):
http://christianforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=367

Your friend in Christ,
Mark
(I'm an Elder in LCC.)

 

[unholy]

My fiance and I are looking into a new denomination. We were both raised Catholic and we have been turned off to the Catholic church.

Having grown up in the church: we find a lot of comfort from the Catholic traditions.

What denominations have similar traditions: ie. Eucharist, saints, trinity, etc....but have managed to loose the pedophilia and don't bash gays: at least not openly.

The Orthodox Church?

 

[wpiman2]

Mark; thanks. I will definitely check it out. I find the Saint Intercessions to be somewhat of a joke as well; I mean God listens to me directly; I don't need an intermediary.

 

[Albion]

The obvious answer is "The Episcopal Church."

While some Lutheran churches and possibly also some of the Orthodox churches would come close, they wouldn't be as close to what you've described as The Episcopal Church is. That would be true with regard to the style of worship and traditions, but also with regard to your comment about gays. While none of these would "bash" gays, The Episcopal Church is by far the most "gay-friendly" (with openly gay priests and bishops, for example). I guess it depends on just the particular slant on that subject you had in mind.

Incidentally, the Orthodox churches are like all these others mentioned here in being liturgical. The Orthodox worship service is like the Catholic Mass in structure, but the liturgy is usually thought by Catholic visitiors to be quite foreign to them in feel, music, and even right down to the look of the sanctuary.

 

[Zoness]

Yeah I would say one of the more liberal Lutheran churches like the ELCA or the Episcopal Church. Both are very liturgical, although that liturgy varies from the Catholic mass a lot. They openly accept gays and they don't really recognize saints in the same way Catholics do, which is something I perfer as well. On Orthodox, they are very conservative like Catholics and Confessional Lutherans.

 

[BabyLutheran]

Not all ELCA churches are extremely liberal. Mine is not.

You would be very at home in our liturgy, it is pretty close to the RC one in many respects.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Not all ELCA churches are extremely liberal. Mine is not.

You would be very at home in our liturgy, it is pretty close to the RC one in many respects.

Hi BL!

Yes, our Lutheran Mass is just that, the Mass.

I loaned my copy of The Lutheran Service Book to a Catholic friend who is on her parish's Liturgical Committee. Both her and her Priest commented that we seem to have "nicer" settings than they do!

They particularly liked Divine Service 3, which is the old "common service" with the KJV language and Gregorian Chant. It's my favorite too.

 

[wpiman2]

So what is better in the eyes of the Lord, Episcopalians or Lutherans?

 

[Zoness]

Depends:

Do you mean Episcopalians as in the Episcopal Church which is dominant in America or are you referring to the Anglican communion as a whole? I'm assuming the former because other Anglican congregations exist but they are much smaller, I attend one.

Lutherans are the same way; there are some large divides in Lutheran churches that people consider conservative and liberal. WELS and LCMS being considered the more conservative and ELCA more liberal but these are all relative terms.

Your question cannot be answered fairly because honestly its in the eyes of the beholder and heavily relies on political and theological persuasion (in terms of conservative, moderate, fundementalist, or liberal).

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

So what is better in the eyes of the Lord, Episcopalians or Lutherans?

Neither; "All have sinned and fallen short of the law"

Both!; "He died for all".

As far as who is closer to Scripture; Confessional Lutherans (LCMS, LCC, WELS, and a number of others).

There are believers in every Christian Denomination. As we Confessional Lutherans call it "The Invisible Church". This is the "one holy catholic and Apostolic Church"; "The Communion of the Saints". It is made up of all believers regardless of denomination, both living and those who are with the Lord in heaven. It will be added to by all those who come to faith; some are living now, some yet to be born. This is "the cloud of witnesses" of which Scripture speaks.

Yes, judging by your posts, you also are part of this Church.

This is truly Christs Church!

Blessings,
Mark

 

[Albion]

So what is better in the eyes of the Lord, Episcopalians or Lutherans?

This would be for you to decide, I suppose. For our part, we'd probably need a little more information from you to be able to comment much further. Episcopalians/Anglicans and Lutherans are very similar, although there are some notable differences, such as these:

The more or less official Anglican view of the Lord's Supper is that it is a Real Presence but in a spiritual way. Lutherans do believe that Christ is physically present. The point is, BTW, lost on many members of both churches, if we are realistic about this. But also, Anglicans are likely to celebrate the sacrament more frequently than Lutherans.

Anglicans have always championed the idea that there is a range of beliefs tolerated among the members--on non-essentials, of course. Lutherans tend to feel that less should be left to individual discretion. Anglicans/ Episcopalians run from Evangelicals to Anglo-Catholics but Lutherans tend to be more uniform. Episcopalians are more plugged into church history and traditions than Lutherans are, I'd say.

The place of the clergy is more strongly emphasized among Anglicans. The "catholic" style is retained and Apostolic Succession is important. Lutherans tend to see the minister as a minister only if he's called by a congregation. Until recently, even the word "bishop" was unpopular among American Lutherans. Although the ELCA has reached an agreement with the Episcopal Church USA for intercommunion and its leaders to be consecrated by Episcopal bishops so that there will be Apostolic Succession, it's not something that sits comfortably with all Lutherans, and not even all ELCA Lutherans.

It's hard to guess at how you'd come down on any of these matters, so I still think--if you agree that these churches are two leading candidates for your church home--that you visit parishes of each a few times. I personally feel that when you do this certain things that are intangible dawn on you--a certain sense of the reverence level, the demeanor of the parishioners, the flair of the officiant, the choice of hymns, the sermon topics, etc. But these, while important IMO, are subtle enough that only you will be able to identify them and then only when you are actually there.

 

[ImmersionX]

I am cutting to the chase and I am going to be biblically honest here to the OP:

I am a former Roman Catholic...now just a Christian in the Baptist Tradition so to speak. I do not remember the RCC being anymore "gay bashing" as you put it than any other truely biblical denomination(for lack of a better term)!
If you want to find a church that PRAYS for "gays"....they are out there. If you consider that to be "bashing" perhaps you should find a nice liberal episcopal church that doesn't adhere to the word of God?
I'm confused by your sentiments in the OP.

 

[Albion]

FWIW, ImmersionX, I thought he said two things in the OP sentence that were independent of each other--lose the pedophilia and no gay bashing. Although the first appears to be a reference to the RCC's recent troubles, I didn't see the second as referring to any particular denomination. Or to put it another way, he wants nothing to do with pedophile priests but doesn't want to go to a new extreme with any other denomination that might oppose such things so ardently that it also is into gay bashing. At least that's how I read it.

 

[BabyLutheran]

The Lutherans are trying to move towards weekly communion, at least from what I hear.

My church has communion weekly at both services, and for that I am very thankful

 

[wpiman2]

FWIW, ImmersionX, I thought he said two things in the OP sentence that were independent of each other--lose the pedophilia and no gay bashing. Although the first appears to be a reference to the RCC's recent troubles, I didn't see the second as referring to any particular denomination. Or to put it another way, he wants nothing to do with pedophile priests but doesn't want to go to a new extreme with any other denomination that might oppose such things so ardently that it also is into gay bashing. At least that's how I read it.

Good interpretation.

 

[Zoness]

I find more moderation in Anglican (not Episcopal) congregations, if moderation is what you seek since that is what I got out of Albion's interpretation of your OP. Obviously though it varies congregation to congregation but I would say try both and see where you fit best. Some LCMS Lutherans are more liberal than the standard and some ELCA Lutherans are more conservative than the standard and the same thing applies within the Episcopal church and free Anglican dioceses.

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

Interesting.

 

[MiddleAgeEnchanter]

My fiance and I are looking into a new denomination. We were both raised Catholic and we have been turned off to the Catholic church.

Having grown up in the church: we find a lot of comfort from the Catholic traditions.

What denominations have similar traditions: ie. Eucharist, saints, trinity, etc....but have managed to loose the pedophilia and don't bash gays: at least not openly.

Hmm I am wide open too, but nothing too crazy.

 

[Cjwinnit]

The more or less official Anglican view of the Lord's Supper is that it is a Real Presence but in a spiritual way. Lutherans do believe that Christ is physically present. The point is, BTW, lost on many members of both churches, if we are realistic about this. But also, Anglicans are likely to celebrate the sacrament more frequently than Lutherans.

This statement needs some qualification I think. Saying that Christ is "spiritually present" may be true but we don't mean spiritually in the secular worldly sense, i.e. not really, or only in memory. You can think of the Presence of God at Pentecost as being there "in Spirit" (slightly more literally of course).

Anglicans have always championed the idea that there is a range of beliefs tolerated among the members--on non-essentials, of course.

True to a certain extent.

The place of the clergy is more strongly emphasized among Anglicans. The "catholic" style is retained and Apostolic Succession is important.

True.