Look What I Got in the Mail Today

[Fish and Bread]

 

[PollyJetix]

I don't need a book to answer those questions.
No. And no.

 

[Hank77]

Sin has not changed.
Morality, I'm not sure what the author is talking about. Married women no longer cover their hair, except for the Orthodox Jews, and I think that was a morality issue when the Bible was written.

 

[Fish and Bread]

Father Sean has some very interesting nuanced answers on these questions that I think are going to make some very good fodder for threads when I get around to reading the books.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith had silenced the author you might be in trouble by just having the book but that is speculation.
Fr Fagan, 86, a moral theologian, was silenced by the Vatican in 2008 following the publication of his book “Whatever happened to sin?”
https://www.sm.org.nz/2014/04/pope-intervenes-removing-marist-priests-sanction-silence/

 

[Fish and Bread]

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith had silenced the author you might be in trouble by just having the book but that is speculation.
Fr Fagan, 86, a moral theologian, was silenced by the Vatican in 2008 following the publication of his book “Whatever happened to sin?”
https://www.sm.org.nz/2014/04/pope-intervenes-removing-marist-priests-sanction-silence/

Pope Francis intervened directly with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to have all sanctions lifted, and Father Fagan died a priest in good standing (It was not Pope Francis who put these sanctions in place in the first place, it should also be noted ). Father Fagan had a lot of friends in high places. The President of Ireland personally wrote a letter to the Pope on his behalf:

Pope Francis lifts all Vatican sanctions against outspoken Irish cleric Fr Sean Fagan

These two books I have were published in 20th century. I couldn't get a hold of Father Fagan's 2008 book at a reasonable price, but it's on my long-term radar in the event a less expensive copy becomes available. I had to wait a long time on the first two. These are hard to get a hold of on a budget- but my slight advantage is that I was just looking for reading copies rather than collectibles- one is clearly a very used former library book, etc..

Anyway, Father Fagan was controversial, which should make the books interesting reading, and he's controversial in the same way I'm controversial, which is nice- he was a real Spirit of Vatican II/Pope Francis type of Catholic. They went out of style for a while, but the worm has turned again and we're starting to see some of these great priests and theologians come back into vogue. We're not quite there with the Church as a whole, but as the old song from around the time of Vatican II goes, the times they are a-changing, again.

It should be interesting to dig to some real progressive Catholic theology. One of these books was written only about 15 years after the council closed. Whatever side of these discussions people were or are on, I would think some source material from some of the people of that era would be interested. For too long we've been limited to mostly the side that won- the more conservative interpretation of the council. Pope Francis is opening the doors again and starting to let progressives have a voice, at least I'm hoping that's what's going on. I think he himself is a progressive- although probably not quite in the school of a Father Fagan- a lot closer than the last couple of Popes have been, and someone who is less resistant to a robust discussion than his immediate predecessors were.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Pope Francis intervened directly with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to have all sanctions lifted, and Father Fagan died a priest in good standing (It was not Pope Francis who put these sanctions in place in the first place, it should also be noted ). Father Fagan had a lot of friends in high places. The President of Ireland personally wrote a letter to the Pope on his behalf:

Pope Francis lifts all Vatican sanctions against outspoken Irish cleric Fr Sean Fagan

These two books I have were published in 20th century. I couldn't get a hold of Father Fagan's 2008 book at a reasonable price, but it's on my long-term radar in the event a less expensive copy becomes available. I had to wait a long time on the first two. These are hard to get a hold of on a budget- but my slight advantage is that I was just looking for reading copies rather than collectibles- one is clearly a very used former library book, etc..

Anyway, Father Fagan was controversial, which should make the books interesting reading, and he's controversial in the same way I'm controversial, which is nice- he was a real Spirit of Vatican II/Pope Francis type of Catholic. They went out of style with many, but the worm has turned again and we're starting to see some of these great priests and theologians come back into vogue. We're not quite there with the Church as a whole, but as the old song from around the time of Vatican II goes, the times they are a-changing, again.

It should be interesting to dig to some real progressive Catholic theology. One of these books was written only about 15 years after the council closed. Whatever side of these discussions people were or are on, I would think some source material from some of the people of that era would be interested. For too long we've been limited to mostly the side that won- the more conservative interpretation of the council. Pope Francis is opening the doors again and starting to let progressives have a voice, at least I'm hoping that's what's going on. I think he himself is a progressive- although probably not quite in the school of a Father Fagan- a lot closer than the last couple of Popes have been, and someone who is less resistant to a robust discussion than his immediate predecessors were.

Question was the original silencing done under/by Ratzinger as pope or when he was head of the DoF? If so is the Popes lifting a slapp in the face of those that silenced him? Sounds kinda like Trump Oboma issue.

 

[Fish and Bread]

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith had silenced the author you might be in trouble by just having the book but that is speculation.
Fr Fagan, 86, a moral theologian, was silenced by the Vatican in 2008 following the publication of his book “Whatever happened to sin?”
https://www.sm.org.nz/2014/04/pope-intervenes-removing-marist-priests-sanction-silence/

2008 would have been during Pope Benedict's Papacy. It's fairly common for disciplinary decisions to be reversed. I doubt Pope Benedict took it personally. He might have done it himself eventually had he not resigned.

Having said that, I don't think Father Fagan would have ever been silenced in the first place under Pope Francis. When Pope Benedict was Cardinal Ratzinger, people actually had t-shirts printed up about him "laying the smackdown on heresy" and being "God's Rottweiler". He silenced an almost unbelievable number of people. Pope Francis seems to have a much gentler more pastoral approach that allows people greater latitude in their writings. At least, that's my impression so far- I don't have hard numbers to support that.

 

[Fish and Bread]

I'll tell you what the first surprise of this book is (I started with "Has Sin Changed?"). The beginning of the first chapter calls for a re-emphasis on sin. From a progressive. I'm expecting he'll present an interesting spin on exactly what he means by that.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

2008 would have been during Pope Benedict's Papacy. It's fairly common for disciplinary decisions to be reversed. I doubt Pope Benedict took it personally. He might have done it himself eventually had he not resigned.

Having said that, I don't think Father Fagan would have ever been silenced in the first place under Pope Francis. When Pope Benedict was Cardinal Ratzinger, people actually had t-shirts printed up about him "laying the smackdown on heresy" and being "God's Rottweiler". He silenced an almost unbelievable number of people. Pope Francis seems to have a much gentler more pastoral approach that allows people greater latitude in their writings. At least, that's my impression so far- I don't have hard numbers to support that.

Thanks
Happy Sabbath today

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm looking forward to hearing what you learn!