I said this:
"Of course the Bible teaches clearly that a believer can fall away from the faith. That isn't the issue. The issue is whether the Bible teaches that those who have fallen away lose their salvation. That assumption is very common, but is not taught in Scripture.
Instead, the Bible teaches that WHEN one believes in Christ they are placed in Christ and sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, a guarantee for the day of redemption. Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5."
You missed my point completely. This isn't the issue. Obviously the Bible says that people fall away from the faith. The issue is to prove from Scripture that falling away from the faith results in loss of salvation.
That is NOT found anywhere in Scripture.
Really? So a person who was once on fire for God and did many great things for the Lord and had a deep walk with Him for many years and then later commits suicide because of tragedy in his family is saved?
Just as I said, you've missed my point completely. But since you asked, is there any verse in the Bible about a believer who commits suicide and loses salvation? Of course NOT.
In fact, just the opposite: King Saul literally fell on his own sword the day after a meeting with Samuel, who told him that he would join Samuel the next day. And we all know exactly where Samuel resided; Paradise.
Sorry, I just don't see support of people falling away from the faith as being saved.
There is NO support for falling away from the faith losing salvation.
I said this:
"This seems to be a word game. Whether salvation is "lost", or "forfeited" results in the EXACT SAME CONDITION: going to hell. And I don't play word games. Your statement is internally contradicted."
It's not a word game. There is a difference. For one is a choice to rebel against God and the other is a loss that is outside your control.[/QUOTE]
This makes no sense. Losing salvation and forfeiting salvation results in the EXACT SAME THING.
How can losing salvation be "outside your control"?? That makes no sense. How is salvation EVER in our own control. God is the Source of our salvation. He alone gives salvation and His gifts are irrevocable. Rom 11:29
For example: If a man ran thru a forest and a branch ripped his pocket letting loose all the change that was within it (without him realizing it), he would have lost that change. But if that same man took change from out of his pocket and threw it willingly into the forest, he is forfeiting that change of his own free will choice.
Why would anyone try to equate salvation to "loose change"?? Salvation isn't some object that can be lost.
But, tell me how one can lose salvation by running thru your fantasy forest and ripping your pocket. Is that where you keep your salvation; in your pocket??
In other words, salvation is not forced upon you. We still have free will to believe or not to believe after we have accepted Jesus Christ.
This is where you are in great error. There are zero verses about walking away or falling away from our faith resulting in loss of salvation.
God is not a respecter of persons. Just because a person says they believe in Jesus Christ does not really mean anything if they have no real fruit in their life that Christ lives within them (See James 2:17, and 2 Corinthians 13:5).
It's never been about what one SAYS they believe. It's ALWAYS been about what one BELIEVES, not SAYS.
And the Bible disagrees with you. For all who name as if they part of Christ's kingdom who work iniquity will be removed by Christ's angels at the End of the Age and cast into the fire to be destroyed (Matthew 13:41-42).
What does "all who name as if they part of Christ's kingdom" mean?
Here are the verses:
41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
If this is a blanket statement about who gets in and who doesn't, then all the verses about believing in Christ are wrong. Just look at the context of the whole text, not just those 2 verses. All of it is about the difference between believers and unbelievers.
I said this:
"Again, there is no evidence in any of these verses about the "potential" of losing/forfeiting their salvation."
But what if the Bible actually says that?
Then prove it by quoting any verse that says so. That's how one proves their view.
Would you be willing to change if that was the case?
Until I see a verse that says so, there is no reason to believe it.
For there are many verses in the Bible that tell us a person can be saved for a time and then be unsaved.
OK, you're on. Show me any verse that says that and I'll have to believe it.