Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I see, you can't answer the question. Where specifically in John 3 and Titus 2 do we find what regeneration is necessary for?For the necessity of regeneration, read John 3. And Titus 2.
Define yourself please. Rom 10:10 is clear about where man believes from; his heart.
Seems you're quite fond of asking questions, but not so much about answering them.
From post, #243: you said:
"All believers produce fruit. Hence, the parable."
My response:
"Please support this assumption with clear Scripture."
So, yeah, I did.
Nice theory, but what Scripture supports this assumption?
I gave Gal 3:2 and 5 to prove that one receives the Holy Spirit by means of faith.
Your theory is contrary to what Scripture teaches.
It's faith that comes through regeneration. That's why Jesus talks of the new birth before He talks about belief.This seems to skirt the concept of what "saving faith" is. Please define what you think "saving faith" is.
I'm sorry. I thought you were familiar with those chapters. I think, though, if you read them, you will see.I see, you can't answer the question. Where specifically in John 3 and Titus 2 do we find what regeneration is necessary for?
Please quit being so vague in your responses.
Hello Hammster.Belief isn't enough. Even the demons believe. There was no root.
Our belief in Jesus Christ is the sole cause of our justification before God. AbrahamBelief isn't enough. Even the demons believe. There was no root.
I'm proposing that belief apart from God working in us does not save. Some on here promote cheap grace. There's no change in a person, but heck, they believed for one second, so they are saved regardless. So yes, we are justified by faith. But without a new heart, we won't have saving faith. It will just be like the two middle soils.Hello Hammster.
I noticed a comment that you made in post # 236.
Our belief in Jesus Christ is the sole cause of our justification before God. Abraham
believed and was therefore reckoned to be righteous in God's sight (Galatians 3:6).
Are you proposing a synergism between the believer and God Himself for salvation?
You also incorrectly stated that the 'demon's believe'? The scripture is silent in regard
to the demons believing in Jesus.
Hello Hammster.Jesus is giving an illustration that anyone at the time would understand since it was an agricultural society. Everyone knew that only good soil produced good fruit. Yes, poor soil might look good at first. But it's an illusion.
So let's look at the parable.
19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.
20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy,
21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty."
Obviously, the first soil is unprepared. This is the one that flatly rejects the gospel. The second one is rocky. This is the one you mention. Yes, the word is received with joy. But you'll notice that there is no root. Compare that to the fourth soil. The fourth one obviously has good roots because there is fruit aplenty.
So the first three soils were not prepared. The fourth one was.
May I ask why your interpretation fails to address the two key phrases in the statementThis is the one you mention. Yes, the word is received with joy.
But you'll notice that there is no root. So the first three soils were not prepared.
Sloooowww down.Your post on Romans 6 didn't address this. It's talking about believers and that we cannot continue to sin just because grace abounds even more. He was dealing with the argument that some were making that we should sun more to show God's grace.
I put this into bullets so that it would be easier to critique individual premises. Logically, in order for an argument to be proven to be invalid, all you have to do is show how the premises don't follow to a conclusion, which can be done through showing how one of the premises are wrong.
The only way out of this inconsistency:
- According to Calvinism, man is unable to come to salvation by his own power, and can only come to salvation through irresistible grace.
- If man is unable to come to salvation by his own power, then he can't help but sin (there is no middle ground between faith and sin).
- Therefore, according to Calvinism, man can't help but sin.
- Blame implies freedom, such that a person can only be blamed for what he's free to accept or reject. I.e., you can't blame a person for doing that which he can't help but do.
- Calvinism holds that the individual isn't free to accept or reject God except through irresistible grace.
- Therefore, Calvinism shouldn't place blame on sinners, given that blame implies a freedom to accept or reject God that isn't possible without irresistible grace.
- However, Calvinism does place blame on sinners; therefore Calvinism is logically inconsistent.
- Hold that individuals are free to reject grace, which would allow them to be blameworthy, given that blame implies freedom to accept or reject -- but here you don't have Calvinism.
- Hold that individuals are born in a state of innocence, not in sin, and that they're blameworthy in the sense of sinning first -- but here you have an unorthodox position that rejects original sin.
- Hold that theology doesn't need to be logically consistent -- but here you can believe anything about God given the lack of logic with exegesis.
Hello Hammster.I'm proposing that belief apart from God working in us does not save. Some on here promote cheap grace. There's no change in a person, but heck, they believed for one second, so they are saved regardless. So yes, we are justified by faith. But without a new heart, we won't have saving faith. It will just be like the two middle soils.
The act of believing (faith) in Jesus Christ is the Gospel.So yes, we are justified by faith.
One must endure in their belief in Jesus Christ through thick and thin.Some on here promote cheap grace.
This statement of your seems confused, could you clarify this statement?But without a new heart, we won't have saving faith. It will just
be like the two middle soils.
That is an interesting sentence.I'm proposing that belief apart from God working in us does not save. Some on here promote cheap grace. There's no change in a person, but heck, they believed for one second, so they are saved regardless. So yes, we are justified by faith. But without a new heart, we won't have saving faith. It will just be like the two middle soils.
Hello ToBeLoved.That is an interesting sentence.
Because without belief we do not have faith. And without faith we do not come to Christ. So without belief, faith we do not have God working in us.
Practicly every Calvanist spouts the 'God working in me' every other sentence. It is like the cheap-seats of the doctrine. Not calling it what it is which is works, but by putting God at the front of your phrase, you misrepresent God and yourselves.
Saying it is God working in you, does not make it so. Because works-oriented people always have that excuse.
There is no process of being born again. There's nothing in Romans 6 to suggest that. I explained what was being said. You've ignored it because of this nonsense. So be it.Sloooowww down.
Romans 6 is to believers.
Romans 6:1 tells us not to take grace for granted BECAUSE
Romans 6:2 we are dead to sin
Romans 6:3 GOES BACK and tells us how we became 'dead to sin'
and this continues through to
Romans 6:12
So, when you say Romans 6 didn't address this, it did, but you were to busy reading that it was for believers, which is true. But it goes back in Romans 6:3-12 and describes what happens when we are born again.
So, these verses 6:2-12 are about what happened when we were IN THE PROCESS of being born again.
That is what I am trying to tell you.
I didn't say grace was cheap. You should find the post. You'll see what my point is.@Hammster I lost your post, but this reply is for you.
And this phrase "cheap grace" is demeaning to Jesus Christ who died to give us grace, and it wasn't cheap nor was it easy. I think that phrase is offensive and should not be used by any Christian.
I did ask for Scriptural support for your view. whatever.That's what I replied to. Follow the quotes. You did not ask for scripture.
As to your other actually relevant point, we know that faith comes by hearing. We also know that not everyone who hears the gospel believes. Paul also says earlier that we cannot please God in the flesh. I would assume that we agree that hearing is pleasing to God. So if you look at scripture as a whole, and not just a bunch of verses thrown together, it's clear that our ability to believe comes from God.
1 So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy,That is an interesting sentence.
Because without belief we do not have faith. And without faith we do not come to Christ. So without belief, faith we do not have God working in us.
Practicly every Calvanist spouts the 'God working in me' every other sentence. It is like the cheap-seats of the doctrine. Not calling it what it is which is works, but by putting God at the front of your phrase, you misrepresent God and yourselves.
Saying it is God working in you, does not make it so. Because works-oriented people always have that excuse.
Firs off, do you believe God takes our heart of stone and gives us a heart of flesh?Hello Hammster.
I must commend you for the following comment.
The act of believing (faith) in Jesus Christ is the Gospel.
One must endure in their belief in Jesus Christ through thick and thin.
Any claim of 'Cheap Grace' would find no support in the scripture.
This statement of your seems confused, could you clarify this statement?
Please provide Scriptural support for this claim.It's faith that comes through regeneration.
So that's how one concludes which comes first?? Such a view is on mighty shakey ground. But at least you've given reasons for your theory.That's why Jesus talks of the new birth before He talks about belief.
Once again, a failure to actually answer the question. I'm VERY FAMILIAR with both chapters, which is WHY I asked for the specific verses that you think support your claim. As usual, just more vagueness.I'm sorry. I thought you were familiar with those chapters. I think, though, if you read them, you will see.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?