Logic about same race marriage

JimmyKoKoPop · Jun 15, 2005

Before I begin, I should mention I know what this thread is going to get into and such... But I'll answer the OP by itself.

How do you define who is what race? It's worth mentioning you used to be able to change race by crossing a state line.

Danhalen · Jun 15, 2005

Kasey said:
If your talking about the part of intermixing your race is a perversion, disgusting and an abomination, its from the Bible

Can you demonstrate the truth of your claim? I would like to see it. Bible verse(s) will do.

beechy · Jun 15, 2005

Kasey said:
If your talking about the part of intermixing your race is a perversion, disgusting and an abomination, its from the Bible

I am a "mixed-race" person in that my father and mother have ancestors from different countries and cultures. How would you recommend that I (a living perversion?) "stick with my own kind"? Any child I have will be by default a "mixed race" child.

Danhalen · Jun 15, 2005

beechy said:
I am a "mixed-race" person in that my father and mother have ancestors from different countries and cultures. How would you recommend that I (a living perversion?) "stick with my own kind"? Any child I have will be by default a "mixed race" child.

[SARCASM]I guess you'll just have to burn in hell. Sorry beechy, you have always seemed to be such a nice Christian.[/SARCASM]

It always amazes me that people can be intelligent enough to read and write, yet come up with something so stupid.

On a serious note, I know that the God you worship does not hate people that follow His law. If your God exists, beechy will be right there in the end with Him.

john23237 · Jun 15, 2005

I grew up in the South in the fifties and sixties and have heard this sick, perverted, hateful trash preached by self identified good "Christians" more times than I care to consider. Christianity is NOT a faith to these people, it is a weapon to be used against others, a way to feel superior in their little minds. You are wasting your time with them. The only god they wish to talk about is one they can use to try to get their way: the only Bible verses they know are the ones they think can be twisted to suit their purposes. To be plain about it, it is not a faith, it is a useful weapon. Those who would dare to use God for their own sad ends are not individuals you can reason with.

Kasey · Jun 16, 2005

Danhalen said:
Can you demonstrate the truth of your claim? I would like to see it. Bible verse(s) will do.

The passages your looking for reside within the Book of Ezra in the Law and the Prophets - Ezra 10:2, 10:10, 10:11, 10:14, 10:17, 10:18, 10:44

Take a look at the word "strange" in these passages. Throughout these passages, it is the same Hebrew word that is being used. According to Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, this is the Hebrew word "nokriy" and it means an alien, a foreigner, outlandish. According to Strong's Concordance, this same Hebrew word also means a ""non-relative"" as in the context of being foreign or an alien.

The fact of the matter is is that this is speaking in a racial context, else, it would not have stated "non-relative", for if that wasnt the case, then this word would never have to mean something such as this. This is further verified by the fact that it is speaking in context of the Israelite people.

The Israelites were from a specific lineage from a specific people. If not, then there would have been no need to be specific in this regard in the first place as it would be rediculously absurd. In addition, it would be prudent to take a look at some of the statutes of God listed within the Bible.

Leviticus: 19:19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

The Israelites were not to mix their cattle, or, as it would be called in modern times, to cross-breed to get hybrid species. They were also not to sow their field with "mingled" seed, which, according to Strong's Concordance and Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, is the Hebrew word "kil'ayim" and it means a mixture. The context is cross-breeding and therefore, in context, this would mean cross-breeding the seed and then sowing the field with that same seed.

Another piece of evidence would be the creation account in Genesis 1. Note, that God is said to create the creatures to bring forth after their "kind" in Genesis 1:11-25 and numerous other passages within the Law and the Prophets. Basically, all it boils down to is that God the Father and Christ Jesus created pure species, with pure races and pure variations as if to say "Cats/Tigers/White-Tigers." It is the same with human beings as well.

All in all, God the Father and Christ Jesus love variation, that is true, but they love variations with purity of the races, in whatever species it might be. If they didnt, then they wouldnt have created things they way there were created.

Kasey · Jun 16, 2005

john23237 said:
I grew up in the South in the fifties and sixties and have heard this sick, perverted, hateful trash preached by self identified good "Christians" more times than I care to consider. Christianity is NOT a faith to these people, it is a weapon to be used against others, a way to feel superior in their little minds. You are wasting your time with them. The only god they wish to talk about is one they can use to try to get their way: the only Bible verses they know are the ones they think can be twisted to suit their purposes. To be plain about it, it is not a faith, it is a useful weapon. Those who would dare to use God for their own sad ends are not individuals you can reason with.

If you dont agree with what I am saying then that is your choice and your welcome to it, however, dont sit there and call it hateful and sick and perverted when you have shown nothing from the scriptures to back up your statements.

Will you say that its wrong to be against homosexuals because the Bible condemns them in Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13? How about Psalms 26:5 where it specifically states that David hates the congregation of evil-doers?

I will gladly debate you on any these topics, for I am confident that I have the evidence to support my assertions. Can you say the same?

Kasey · Jun 16, 2005

beechy said:
I am a "mixed-race" person in that my father and mother have ancestors from different countries and cultures. How would you recommend that I (a living perversion?) "stick with my own kind"? Any child I have will be by default a "mixed race" child.

That depends on several factors. If your the product and a white and black, then it would be prudent to get together with someone else who is the same, would it not?

U R my Sonshine · Jun 16, 2005

Sopharos said:
This thread reminds me of one of my favorite movie quotes:

"All we need is a voluntary, free-spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just gotta keep f***in' everybody 'til they're all the same color. " - Senator Jay Bulworth

race problem solved.

Works for me....(inside of a marriage.) God knows we don't need any more kids raised without both parents than there already are.

U R my Sonshine · Jun 16, 2005

Kasey said:
If your talking about the part of intermixing your race is a perversion, disgusting and an abomination, its from the Bible

Chapter and VERSE?????....

and why don't you change your user name to "Hitler" while your at it? It only costs 15,000 blessing to do this ....most of us would pool ours for you.

christalee4 · Jun 16, 2005

Kasey said:
The passages your looking for reside within the Book of Ezra in the Law and the Prophets - Ezra 10:2, 10:10, 10:11, 10:14, 10:17, 10:18, 10:44

Take a look at the word "strange" in these passages. Throughout these passages, it is the same Hebrew word that is being used. According to Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, this is the Hebrew word "nokriy" and it means an alien, a foreigner, outlandish. According to Strong's Concordance, this same Hebrew word also means a ""non-relative"" as in the context of being foreign or an alien.

The fact of the matter is is that this is speaking in a racial context, else, it would not have stated "non-relative", for if that wasnt the case, then this word would never have to mean something such as this. This is further verified by the fact that it is speaking in context of the Israelite people.

The Israelites were from a specific lineage from a specific people. If not, then there would have been no need to be specific in this regard in the first place as it would be rediculously absurd. In addition, it would be prudent to take a look at some of the statutes of God listed within the Bible.

Leviticus: 19:19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

The Israelites were not to mix their cattle, or, as it would be called in modern times, to cross-breed to get hybrid species. They were also not to sow their field with "mingled" seed, which, according to Strong's Concordance and Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, is the Hebrew word "kil'ayim" and it means a mixture. The context is cross-breeding and therefore, in context, this would mean cross-breeding the seed and then sowing the field with that same seed.

Another piece of evidence would be the creation account in Genesis 1. Note, that God is said to create the creatures to bring forth after their "kind" in Genesis 1:11-25 and numerous other passages within the Law and the Prophets. Basically, all it boils down to is that God the Father and Christ Jesus created pure species, with pure races and pure variations as if to say "Cats/Tigers/White-Tigers." It is the same with human beings as well.

All in all, God the Father and Christ Jesus love variation, that is true, but they love variations with purity of the races, in whatever species it might be. If they didnt, then they wouldnt have created things they way there were created.

Your logic is convoluted here - how can you compare not mixing farm animals to humans of different colors not mixing. The human race is ONE SPECIES - one and the same!!

Racists in this country have unfortunately twisted interpretation of the Bible to be used to justify and teach separation, discrimination and outright hatred. Very small racist groups in this country - to wit, Christian Identity, KKK, League of the South, Council of Conservative Citizens, World Church of the Creator, and various Christian militia groups, teach Bible interpretation that that whites are God's real chosen, and that the blacks, Jews and "mud people" are evil, inferior and should be done away with.

The Bible was also used to justify the killing of Jews and gays in WWII by the National Socialist leaders who manipulated the public with propaganda and sowed hatred to justify their actions.

U R my Sonshine · Jun 16, 2005

christalee4 said:
Your logic is convoluted here - how can you compare not mixing farm animals to humans of different colors not mixing. The human race is ONE SPECIES - one and the same!!

Racists in this country have unfortunately twisted interpretation of the Bible to be used to justify and teach separation, discrimination and outright hatred. Very small racist groups in this country - to wit, Christian Identity, KKK, League of the South, Council of Conservative Citizens, World Church of the Creator, and various Christian militia groups, teach Bible interpretation that that whites are God's real chosen, and that the blacks, Jews and "mud people" are evil, inferior and should be done away with.

The Bible was also used to justify the killing of Jews and gays in WWII by the National Socialist leaders who manipulated the public with propaganda and sowed hatred to justify their actions.

I think we are dealing with a ill-educated person in the post you are referencing. There are obviously NO bible verses that would discourage inter-racial marriages. Some that would discourage INTER FAITH marriages...but not interracial. He cannot produce any...and won't be able to. Unfortunately he was taught this twisted version of christianity by someone even more hateful....and this is the end result.

I think I hear "Dualing Banjoes" playing in the background.....??

Scholar in training · Jun 16, 2005

U R my Sonshine said:
I think we are dealing with a ill-educated person in the post you are referencing. There are obviously NO bible verses that would discourage inter-racial marriages. Some that would discourage INTER FAITH marriages...but not interracial.

Sometimes interracial marriages were discouraged on the grounds that they might cause you to abandon your faith (for instance, the king of Israel being warned about marrying foreign wives in order making alliances with other nations; and warned against following foreign gods). But you're right in saying that none of them are discouraged on grounds of "racial superiority".

lunalinda · Jun 16, 2005

Yep, I don't think I have anything more to say to yah, Kasey, cuz it's already concluded that I'm perverted and disgusting and whatever else he/she said. I'm part Mexican, Puerto-Rican (which have black in them if you trace waaay back), Spanish, and Native American (which were considered what...savages way back in the day?), and am therefore inferior to you, my place being somewhere in between pond scum and feces. And when my interest in a human being of another color puts me lower in your eyes, Kasey, then that's your own problem. You go ahead and call it what you must, and continue to demonstrate hatefulness of your fellow man, but I choose to demonstrate the love of Christ for ALL of God's people, and even YOU'RE going to be the recipient of that. I'm sorry that you speak the way you speak because of how you learned it, but I do hope you'll change your ways one day, because in my opinion, being so hateful and then trying to justify it by the taking verses out of context from the Bible (which is DANGEROUS, so do be careful) won't get you too far in this world. Peace and God be with you.

Oh, and by the way, on a side note...The stubborn human in me would love to see you sneer at me as I hold the hand of a Black boyfriend. But as tempting as it would be to snicker and then decide to French-kiss him (lots of TONGUE) in response to the sneer just to bug you more, it wouldn't be proper of me and would be quite immature. But knowing me, I'd probably still do it. I can't say for sure, but hey...who knows? But no matter how I might feel, it's not going to change you, not that I'd expect it to. It's still God's job to deal with your heart, not mine. But I won't stop being affectionate to ANY human being I'm attracted to, and I won't feed the hatred by stopping what I do, no matter how disgusting or perverted or whatever else you labeled it. I refuse to let hatred consume me...refuse to let it turn me into its puppet. But that's just me.

Ledifni · Jun 16, 2005

vatuck said:
Hope so. It sounds like a pretty archaic idea (telling people who to marry, etc.)

Archaic? Ask the next gay man or lesbian you meet if that idea is "archaic."

Ledifni · Jun 16, 2005

Sopharos said:
This thread reminds me of one of my favorite movie quotes:

"All we need is a voluntary, free-spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just gotta keep f***in' everybody 'til they're all the same color. " - Senator Jay Bulworth

Sounds good to me. My place or yours?

Ledifni · Jun 16, 2005

Cobalt Blue said:
I believe USincognito was trying to make the point that genetically there is no bases for the whole concept of "race". The truth is that there is actually more genetic diversity within so called races than there is between them.

Well, yes, but we don't define race by a simple count of genetic differences. Any given population has certain alleles that are fairly universal. There are alleles that are universal to the human race, and then there are alleles that are universal to portions of the human race. Where there are large portions of the human race that share a certain number of alleles, we often define them as a "race".

So genetically, there is a basis for the concept of race. There are not clearly defined "race lines," but one's race can be defined as a function of one's genes.

What I think you may be trying to say is that genetically, there is no basis for assuming that a stereotype can be applied to a race as a whole, because the differences between individuals in the group are far greater than their similarities. Keep in mind, though, that this applies to any group, not just racial groups.

MidnightBlue · Jun 16, 2005

beechy said:
I am a "mixed-race" person in that my father and mother have ancestors from different countries and cultures. How would you recommend that I (a living perversion?) "stick with my own kind"? Any child I have will be by default a "mixed race" child.

We're all "mixed race"; it's just that some of us realize it and some of us don't. One of the interesting things that came out of the whole Thomas Jefferson/Sally Hemings controversy was the number of Sally Hemings' descendants who were "white people" with no idea they had African-American ancestry.

I doubt whether anybody you know is a whiter white woman than Queen Elizabeth II, and that good lady has Arab and African ancestors; she is, in fact, a direct descendant of Muhammad. (Chances are that you are, too; but she can document it.)

People who imagine that their "race" is "pure", or that they aren't already related to every other human being, are just victims of superstition and ignorance, and should be pitied.

Kasey · Jun 16, 2005

christalee4 said:
Your logic is convoluted here - how can you compare not mixing farm animals to humans of different colors not mixing. The human race is ONE SPECIES - one and the same!!

This is an Evolutionistic philosophy and is un-Biblical. You have mankind as a general species, yes, however, you just like animals, they can be broken down to different races within that speices and then to different kinds within that race.

Racists in this country have unfortunately twisted interpretation of the Bible to be used to justify and teach separation, discrimination and outright hatred. Very small racist groups in this country - to wit, Christian Identity, KKK, League of the South, Council of Conservative Citizens, World Church of the Creator, and various Christian militia groups, teach Bible interpretation that that whites are God's real chosen, and that the blacks, Jews and "mud people" are evil, inferior and should be done away with.

If you believe that Im showing something contrary to the Bible, then you step up here and show me how Im am wrong from that same Bible.

The Bible was also used to justify the killing of Jews and gays in WWII by the National Socialist leaders who manipulated the public with propaganda and sowed hatred to justify their actions.

The BIble can be used to justify anything, yes, but its up tot he person to find out if the Bible actually teaches what someone says it does. Therefore, how about you showing me on how Im wrnong concerning the fact that same-race marriage is against the scriptures?

Blackguard_ · Jun 16, 2005

"All we need is a voluntary, free-spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just gotta keep f***in' everybody 'til they're all the same color. "

About the most Nihilistic thing I have ever heard.

Do those who think like Bulworth hate red/blonde/brown hair and green/blue eyes and fair skin?

I personally would not want to live in a world without brown-haired girls with emerald green eyes and fair skin.

Do you really want everyone to look like Tiger Woods?

I doubt whether anybody you know is a whiter white woman than Queen Elizabeth II, and that good lady has Arab and African ancestors; she is, in fact, a direct descendant of Muhammad.

Link to source please.

I hope you do not mean the apochryphal story of Elanor of Aquitaine and Saladin, as Liz 2 is from a different family.

Logic about same race marriage

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