Logic about same race marriage

arunma said:

Wow, I'm quite surprised at some of the ideas being advocated here. I've debated a racist before, and I find that they aren't very responsive to sound Biblical doctrine. For the moment, I just want to remind everyone that anyone who believes in racial discrimination ought not to call himself a Christian. God will only judge the racist more harshly.

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Uh-huh, right. Judgment is according to "sin", that cannot be denied and "sin" is the transgression of the Law according to 1 John 3:4. It is against God's Law to mix your race. All of the evidence I have shown proves this and therefore, your statements here are not fact, but merely opinion and opinion holds no water in a debate.

Even aside from this, you didnt even care to back up your opinions with any shred of evidence. Thus, your just making yourself look bad

Kasey said:

Oh come now, lets not even think its 3-c. THis would be the most accurate as this can be applied to animals as well - Cats/Tigers/White-Tigers.

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Um.. we ARE animals.

Kasey said:

c : a division of mankind possessing traits that are transmissible by descent and sufficient to characterize it as a distinct human type

Oh come now, lets not even think its 3-c. THis would be the most accurate as this can be applied to animals as well - Cats/Tigers/White-Tigers.

So, thats how I define race as general groups or divisions of human beings would fall into this catagory as well such as Blacks and Whites.

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Ok, what traits are you talking about? I am at least 8 inches taller than anyone in my wife's family. My height is transmissible to my children. Pygmies in Africa are shorter than most other Africans. Pygmies are considered a seperate race by other Africans. Their height is what is used to differentiate them from other African races. Since height is a distinguishing trait that is transmissible, is it wrong that I have married my 5'3" wife (since I am 6'4")?

Kasey said:

Uh-huh, right. Judgment is according to "sin", that cannot be denied and "sin" is the transgression of the Law according to 1 John 3:4. It is against God's Law to mix your race. All of the evidence I have shown proves this and therefore, your statements here are not fact, but merely opinion and opinion holds no water in a debate.

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I and numerous others disagree that anything you have posted proves this, it is merely your interpetation of scripture, which of course you are entiled too. So if you feel guided to not "mix" with other races more power to you. I still would like to know how you are making that determination because it is not possible to do it based on how a person looks. So unless you plan on tracing people's geneology, than chances are you will be mixing with other races, especially if you live in America.

Kasey said:

Like I said earlier - it goes all the way back to the erroneous belief that Adam and Eve were the first people on earth and that they supposedly were the progeniters of mankind. Not so. If you like, I would gladly give the evidence for that as well.

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welllll, we are waiting......

Kasey said:

Secondly, you should take a look at Isaiah 56:6. The Hebrew word for "stranger" there is the Hebrew word "nekar" and according to Strong's COncordance it means someone foreign, alien. Ruth, according to the context of the specific lineage of the Israelites from Shem, would be considered foriegn. However, she was still of that same race of people even though she was specifically apart of the Israelite lineage. Yet, according ot this passage, if she basically gave alliegiance to God, she would be considered as an Israelite.

Like I said earlier - it goes all the way back to the erroneous belief that Adam and Eve were the first people on earth and that they supposedly were the progeniters of mankind. Not so. If you like, I would gladly give the evidence for that as well.

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There you go...you said it yourself.....it is about FAITH/Religion...not skin color. But you alreadyknew that...you are perverting the bible verses in a feable attempt to support your own bigotries. And how feable an atempt it is.

Danhalen said:

Ok, what traits are you talking about? I am at least 8 inches taller than anyone in my wife's family. My height is transmissible to my children. Pygmies in Africa are shorter than most other Africans. Pygmies are considered a seperate race by other Africans. Their height is what is used to differentiate them from other African races. Since height is a distinguishing trait that is transmissible, is it wrong that I have married my 5'3" wife (since I am 6'4")?

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Heighth alone is not enough to determine is someone is of a different race. You should know this. Its combination of severl different factors. Its physical compostion of the bones, general heighth, skin tone, facial features as well as all the other physical features prevelant within a given group of human beings that would set them apart from others as being different than others.

You can do this with all plant-life and animals, so why the trouble with humans?

mhatten said:

I and numerous others disagree that anything you have posted proves this, it is merely your interpetation of scripture, which of course you are entiled too. So if you feel guided to not "mix" with other races more power to you. I still would like to know how you are making that determination because it is not possible to do it based on how a person looks. So unless you plan on tracing people's geneology, than chances are you will be mixing with other races, especially if you live in America.

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Ah well, thats just it. You and others "disagree", which ammounts to an opinion and is not fact. Aside from this, there is nothing of a private interpretation concerning the Bible. An example would include a question.

1. What is righteousness? - Psalms 119:171-172 - God's Commandments and Statutes are righteousness.

2. What is sin? - 1 John 3:4 - Sin is the transgression of God's law.

You havent addressed the context of Ezra, nor Nehemiah 13:3,27. You havent addressed the Hebrew, you are merely content to beat around the bush as they say. If you intend on disagreeing with me and say that I have no evidence, then show me the courtesy of addressing those passages that I have used. Please.

Aside from this, it is possible on how a person looks as it is possible with the animals and plant-life. There is no problem with distinquishing because of the looks. In addition, yeah, race-mixing is prevelant within America, but that doesnt mean that there arent pure-racial people of the generic groups such as Black and White.

However, please, address the passages in context as well as the fact that Adam and Eve were not the first humans created as I have shown previously.

U R my Sonshine said:

welllll, we are waiting......

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Its post #308

U R my Sonshine said:

There you go...you said it yourself.....it is about FAITH/Religion...not skin color. But you alreadyknew that...you are perverting the bible verses in a feable attempt to support your own bigotries. And how feable an atempt it is.

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I am not perverting anything, thats what your saying that I am doing, but you dont even address Nehemiah 13:3,27 concerning the Hebrew of the word "mixed", which, according to Strong's COncordance and Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon is the Hebrew word "ereb" and it means a "mongrel" race.

This is taken completely in context of the fact that Adam and Eve were not the first humans on the planet. If they were, then yeah, I would be wrong, but they were not. They were created last. Its the simple fact of Adam and Eve being the last created on the planet that proves all of what Im saying to be true, for race would have to exist then.

Its not about Faith/Religion, else, it wouldnt be a transgression to marry strange wives according to Nehemiah 13:27. The Hebrew word for "strange' is 'nokriy" and it means a non-relative individual. Non-relative, as in the context of being outside your race as stated specifically by the word "mixed" in Nehemiah 13:3.

So, address the word "mixed" and address specifically Nehemiah 13:27.

Kasey said:

Its post #308

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You are kidding? That was nothing but a "Bill Clinton" you tried to pull there. "Depends on what the meaning of the word is is....."

Can you give us your credentials? Theology degree? Even a biology degree? Just study lots at home? Learned this all at your church? Where did you come up with these ideas? Why do you have "the truth" while millions of other Christians...ministers, preists, etc... would never interpret the Bible in the skewed way that you have. How??

The Nehem. Verse? Still about religions mixing and being unequally yoked. BECAUSE back then they were divided by region by race and religion simultaneaously.

U R my Sonshine said:

You are kidding? That was nothing but a "Bill Clinton" you tried to pull there. "Depends on what the meaning of the word is is....."

Can you give us your credentials? Theology degree? Even a biology degree? Just study lots at home? Learned this all at your church? Where did you come up with these ideas? Why do you have "the truth" while millions of other Christians...ministers, preists, etc... would never interpret the Bible in the skewed way that you have. How??

The Nehem. Verse? Still about religions mixing and being unequally yoked. BECAUSE back then they were divided by region by race and religion simultaneaously.

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Hey! I get my infro FROM the experts! I get it from the Hebrew-Greek-English Interliniary that I have, two of them! I get it from the Strong's Concordance of the BIble! I get it from Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon of the Old Testament! I get MY info FROM the EXPERTS!

So..now...where do YOU get YOUR facts from? What sources? I have listed mine, so list yours. What are you basing your so-called evidence upon? Opinion, that Im wrong just because "you" say that I am? Seriously, grow up.

The passage in Nehemiah 13:3 is about mixing your race! Look up the word "mixed" in the Hebrew! The Strong's Concordance and Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldeee Lexicon will tell you it means a MONGREL race! You cannot have a mongrel race if there werent pure races to mix from!

In addition, Nehemiah 13:27 proves that its not about faith/religion!

Nehemiah 13:27: Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to transgress against our God in marrying strange wives?

The Hebrew word for "strange" according to the most verifiably accurate modern sources of the Hebrew, Strong's Concordance and Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee lexicon will tell you that this is the Hebrew word "nokriy" and it speciifcally means an alian, out-landish, foriegn, NON-RELATIVE individual! So, how do you get around that? You cant. Plain and simple. Its speaking COMPLETELY about race. Its ALL in a racial context.

You havent done anything to show how I am wrong concerning the fact that Adam and Eve were not the first people on earth. You didnt address ANYTHING! All that you did was say that Im wrong and thats it, but that doesnt mean that what you say is true, you have to prove it!

Goodness gracious, the only one who has showed me any decenty and courtesy is Blackguard, who at least attempted to talk about some of the passages tht I mentioned, such as Ezra, but you havent done ANYTHING like that. Please, grow up and stop using cheap escape routes where you try to say that Im wrong, but give nothing to support it.

Kasey said:

Hey! I get my infro FROM the experts! I get it from the Hebrew-Greek-English Interliniary that I have, two of them! I get it from the Strong's Concordance of the BIble! I get it from Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon of the Old Testament! I get MY info FROM the EXPERTS!

So..now...where do YOU get YOUR facts from? What sources? I have listed mine, so list yours. What are you basing your so-called evidence upon? Opinion, that Im wrong just because "you" say that I am? Seriously, grow up.

The passage in Nehemiah 13:3 is about mixing your race! Look up the word "mixed" in the Hebrew! The Strong's Concordance and Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldeee Lexicon will tell you it means a MONGREL race! You cannot have a mongrel race if there werent pure races to mix from!

In addition, Nehemiah 13:27 proves that its not about faith/religion!

Nehemiah 13:27: Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to transgress against our God in marrying strange wives?

The Hebrew word for "strange" according to the most verifiably accurate modern sources of the Hebrew, Strong's Concordance and Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee lexicon will tell you that this is the Hebrew word "nokriy" and it speciifcally means an alian, out-landish, foriegn, NON-RELATIVE individual! So, how do you get around that? You cant. Plain and simple. Its speaking COMPLETELY about race. Its ALL in a racial context.

You havent done anything to show how I am wrong concerning the fact that Adam and Eve were not the first people on earth. You didnt address ANYTHING! All that you did was say that Im wrong and thats it, but that doesnt mean that what you say is true, you have to prove it!

Goodness gracious, the only one who has showed me any decenty and courtesy is Blackguard, who at least attempted to talk about some of the passages tht I mentioned, such as Ezra, but you havent done ANYTHING like that. Please, grow up and stop using cheap escape routes where you try to say that Im wrong, but give nothing to support it.

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Okay Kasey... If you believe these thoughts in your own heart...then by all means that is what God will judge. Have a great day and I do pray that your children do not happen to fall for someone who is not a pure bred. Better get those pedigree papers before you allow them to date.

The whole point of this thread is that we are all "mongrels" already. So we better stop making love to our spouses lest there be some reproduction that takes place.

Dunno about anybody else, but I'd rather be a mongrel than an inbred moron

U R my Sonshine said:

Okay Kasey... If you believe these thoughts in your own heart...then by all means that is what God will judge. Have a great day and I do pray that your children do not happen to fall for someone who is not a pure bred. Better get those pedigree papers before you allow them to date.

The whole point of this thread is that we are all "mongrels" already. So we better stop making love to our spouses lest there be some reproduction that takes place.

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Your right, I do hope that my children wont marry outside their race. I will teach them God's Law from the time that they are able to learn. I am not a mongrel, as a mongrel is a mixture of two different and distinct races of people. My children shall not be mongrel as my wife is of the same race as I am.

But, Uh-huh, I see. You do not address the evidence, but just say something like this that doesnt make a dent into anything that I have shown. This shows right here that you dont have the evidence to back up your statements. Your actions right now prove that I am right and that you have nothing to back up "your" assertions. Thanks.

Kasey said:

Your right, I do hope that my children wont marry outside their race. I will teach them God's Law from the time that they are able to learn. I am not a mongrel, as a mongrel is a mixture of two different and distinct races of people. My children shall not be mongrel as my wife is of the same race as I am.

But, Uh-huh, I see. You do not address the evidence, but just say something like this that doesnt make a dent into anything that I have shown. This shows right here that you dont have the evidence to back up your statements. Your actions right now prove that I am right and that you have nothing to back up "your" assertions. Thanks.

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you are so welcome oh wise one. If being "right" is what you are after. PRIDE?? Falll??? Hmmm?...eh well.
(|) for lack of an emoticon

Kasey said:

Your right, I do hope that my children wont marry outside their race. I will teach them God's Law from the time that they are able to learn. I am not a mongrel, as a mongrel is a mixture of two different and distinct races of people. My children shall not be mongrel as my wife is of the same race as I am.

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Actually I truly hope that your children marry someone like me: I am as pale and aryan looking as you can get, I even have a German name! I would have been right up there in the Nazi breeding programme, just slightly under the blonde haired women.

I happen to know that I have a black englishman not too far down my family tree *gasp* *shock horror!*

You would never, ever be able to tell by looking at me. You'd best have your swabs and needles ready whenever your kids bring home a date, because you're going to have to DNA test every single one of them to figure out who's a "mongrel".

I can't believe that we are still trying to convince this guy that he is nuts...we have all looked at the scriptures that he has told us that we have been ignoring for the last three days and yet, with all of our educated minds put together, we must not be as smart as him because we all come to the same conclusions. We have all looked at the scriptures and even presented some more for him that prove that he is wrong, yet, ignorance is bliss. We all must be very stupid.

Kasey said:

Heighth alone is not enough to determine is someone is of a different race. You should know this. Its combination of severl different factors. Its physical compostion of the bones, general heighth, skin tone, facial features as well as all the other physical features prevelant within a given group of human beings that would set them apart from others as being different than others.

You can do this with all plant-life and animals, so why the trouble with humans?

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I am of Irish, English, Scottish, and French descent. My wife is of Italian and Sicilian descent. I vary from my wife in as many physical features (which are transmissible) as people of African descent. Tell me, is our marriage an abomination?

For the record, I do get what you are getting at, I just don't understand where you draw your line determining the differences. Please tell me. All you have done so far is claim it can be done with out saying how it is done. Stop using the differences between to cats, and start using the differences between two humans. Stop dodging so we can prove you wrong.

Blackguard_ said:

there will be much less variation. And the traits associated with the white race will not be part of this, except maybe some monsterous looking people, like if Tiger woods had blue eyes or brown hair.

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So, a mixture of racial features is monstrous? Wow, you must have some mad nightmares, considering that probably 99.9% of the people you see every day (assuming you live in America, that is) display a mixture of racial features.

Blackguard_ said:

Then I will continue to march against the sea.

And since when does might make right?

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I didn't say it does, my friend. I did not say that my preference is "right" and yours is "wrong" due to the "might" of majority opinion. Rather, I said that my preference is realistic and yours is not.

Your objection to racial mixing is primarily, "I find separate races aesthetically pleasing! Don't make me look at ugly mongrels!" While your personal aesthetic preference is no less valid than mine, it is (1) a personal preference, meaning that it's not a valid or useful basis for legislation, and (2) directly goes against what is absolutely and unquestionably guaranteed to happen no matter how hard you try to stop it. As such, I suggest that your personal aethetic preference is likely to lead you into quite a lot of disappointment.

So, for your own good and peace of mind, I suggested, "You should be less attached to the specific races." Certainly, if you wish to be so attached, I cannot and should not attempt to stop you; but I wouldn't advise it since it's likely to drive you mad with frustration.

Blackguard_ said:

Ok, I have never seen that though. might just be I've never lived in an area with a very large black population.

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Yes, might be, mightn't it? Might be that your personal experience is so ridiculously limited that you have no idea what you're talking about, mightn't it? Doesn't seem to stop you from speaking with great authority, though, does it?

Blackguard_ said:

mine does, everywhere I've ever been I've seen this to be the case. And I think they have statistics on this somewhere.

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Do they now? Then I suggest you go and find them "somewhere." I don't know where "somewhere" is, and neither does anyone else here; to us, "I've got sources somewhere" literally translates as, "I have no clue whether this is true or false."

Blackguard_ said:

point taken

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You took some point, certainly. Did you take mine? Somehow I doubt it.

My point was that it doesn't make one damn bit of difference whether you think nice, separate, inbred races are prettier than blended races. Everybody has a different view of beauty and nobody's view of it is more correct than anyone else's. That's why we don't let murderers free if they just did it because they think human blood is pretty -- and that's why we don't persecute people of mixed race just because you don't think they're as pretty as you.

You also might be fascinated to know that you yourself are almost certainly of mixed race, though you don't know it.