Logic about same race marriage

jesusfreak3786 said:

Whats your user name on the Landover Babtist web site? I would be curious to see what you write there. Or do you follow Fred Phelps? I am just trying to get your angle. Paying for it huh? Well I suppose.....with my time wasted reading it.

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I was just about to suggest he go have a heart to heart with old Fred. He may find some agreement there.

The truth of the matter is that no matter how much you vilify it, nor how many times you call me names or what Im saying to be "hateful", its still the truth. You cannot get around the fact that the BIble is completely against same-race marriages.

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Absolutely not. I also disagree with your statement. A pure race is not what God desires and it's not what we desire.

The only reason to be against interracial breeding is one that comes out of consideration for the weakness of the flesh. To be against it is to be considerate of the feelings of others. Men can share this understanding with each other, even though women don't have any sense. If something causes you to sin, cut it off. That's the prescription.

The desire is to not provoke your brother to anger, to cause him to sin. We understand our feelings run deep. We don't want to do the things that will cause our brothers to hate us. Women's feelings about this be damned.

We are not going to be deceived. This is not a women's rights issue. The feminist desire is to sow discord among men. Men understand this issue better than women. We will not trespass against our brothers.

MarkT said:

Absolutely not. I also disagree with your statement. A pure race is not what God desires and it's not what we desire.

The only reason to be against interracial breeding is one that comes out of consideration for the weakness of the flesh. To be against it is to be considerate of the feelings of others. Men can share this understanding with each other, even though women don't have any sense. If something causes you to sin, cut it off. That's the prescription.

The desire is to not provoke your brother to anger, to cause him to sin. We understand our feelings run deep. We don't want to do the things that will cause our brothers to hate us. Women's feelings about this be damned.

We are not going to be deceived. This is not a women's rights issue. The feminist desire is to sow discord among men. Men understand this issue better than women. We will not trespass against our brothers.

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Well let's just replace one type of rhetoric with another.

Kasey said:

Therefore, you have your answer and that is that the Bible is against same-race marriage, which means that GOd the Father and Christ Jesus are against it. They created all to be pure in their own race and its your choice to acknowledge it or attempt to remain in denial.

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You know, saying things like that is sacrilige. You really ought to repent of your racism.

You have no support to say that Hosea 7:7-8 is referring to diluting and mixing cultures.

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Because that is the danger of race mixing, that they will dilute your clture, in this case the jewish religion. foreign was almost synomomous with non-jewish. The issue was the religion of the forign people, not their race.

There is nothing about that in the verses in question. According to context of the statutes of God and Ezra, plus Nehemiah 13:3, 27, this means mixing their race.

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So I guess according to Neh 13:3, Jesus's should have been kicked out, being desended from the foreigners Ruth and Rahab? In verse 1 the Ammonites and Moabites are specifically banned, not everyone of foreign descent. Were these Amommonites and Moabites non-Jewish foreigners living in Isreal, or coverts and the jewish descendents of non-jewish foreigners that suddenly found themselves kicked out? If the second, so much for "if you draw near to me, I'll draw near to you".

I'm curious as to how you explain Ruth and Rahab, and other foreigners becoming jews and even being included in Jesus's lineage?

The New Testament is based upon the Law and the Prophets, for the scriptures always refer to the Law and the Prophets.

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true

Thus, what Paul states is what the Bible states and the Bible states that you are NOT to intermix your race, period.

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Don't worry I have no intention of it.

Yeah, off this thread alone I wouldn't think so myself, but I've had a run in with him before, and read some posts that seem to crave reacton. It seems to be a pattern.

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Ok I don't have much experierience with him. But so far he does not seem like a troll to me.

MarkT said:

Absolutely not. I also disagree with your statement. A pure race is not what God desires and it's not what we desire.

The only reason to be against interracial breeding is one that comes out of consideration for the weakness of the flesh. To be against it is to be considerate of the feelings of others. Men can share this understanding with each other, even though women don't have any sense. If something causes you to sin, cut it off. That's the prescription.

The desire is to not provoke your brother to anger, to cause him to sin. We understand our feelings run deep. We don't want to do the things that will cause our brothers to hate us. Women's feelings about this be damned.

We are not going to be deceived. This is not a women's rights issue. The feminist desire is to sow discord among men. Men understand this issue better than women. We will not trespass against our brothers.

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This isn't a "feminist" issue. It is an issue of being able to biblically choose ones own spouse regardless of melanin production. What do womens/mens feelings have to do with this? Nothing...it takes a man and women to make a couple.

I am very antifeminist, actually, I think married women should be moms and wives and husbands should lead the home....but if you are a woman hater that is your own short coming, Why did that even come up? Sounds like you have some pent up rage. Sounds like you'd prefer if there just weren't any women in a marriage black or white? Well that is a different thread isn't it now?

eh well.....as the thread was before the GIANT Y chromosome advocate hijacked the thread......

Thank you Lord that I have a warm loving husband who rules our household with love and not hatred of women.

Kasey said:

Yes, you can define a race, just as much as you can define what a white tiger is from all tigers from all cats.

You can do this with any creature, why is it that you cannot do it with humans? The answer is that you dont want to, for if you had to, it would completely contradict your philosophy of their being no races within mankind just as their are those variations within all types of animals like the example I used above. Cats/Tigers/White-Tigers.

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Tell me how you define race then. You keep saying that it can be done. You also told me that you do not base it on skin tone alone. So tell me, how do you define race? If you will not do this, I can not have an intelligible discourse with you over the matter. How can I show that you are wrong about something that you can not even define?

Danhalen said:

Tell me how you define race then. You keep saying that it can be done. You also told me that you do not base it on skin tone alone. So tell me, how do you define race? If you will not do this, I can not have an intelligible discourse with you over the matter. How can I show that you are wrong about something that you can not even define?

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Danhalen....Kayey doesn't have the basic "biology" education to back up his claim to know what constitutes a race. He thinks if a horse and donkey mate the mule is a new species. It is just a mule and is infertile and doesn't qualify as a species...ignorance.

The definintion of a species is an organism which can reproduce (mate in the case of animals and people) and produce VIABLE (read fertile) offspring. The races or subspecies are just a result of natural selection (very supportable from a Christian AND scientific standpoint)

Example: All dogs from the Chihuhua to the Great Dane were bred from wolves Canis lupus. All dogs are still the same species Canis lupus but have different "races" not differnent species. If they were all allowed to breed they would indeed revert back to what they started as...the wolf (probably not the timber wolf most of us think of) A good example of this is the feral dogs of the carolinas (search carolina dog in a search engine) and just about any country where there are feral dogs (jamaica...they run all over the beach) they are all yellowish coyote sized dogs with curly talis. People race mixing would (will) most probably revert back to what Adam and Eve looked like.

The bible says God created man in his own image. The reason we all look different today is because He was good enough to allow after many generations a population to develop certain traits to adapt to the climate of origin. Yeah...natural selection. Now that we don't absolutely need those traits because of SHELTER being readily available etc....what is the big deal if the races mix? There is no big deal! The pasty white guy can buy a house in Africa to live with his black wife and not be in the sun all day to burn.

So even if you really believe that those verses were saying that in the bible (which most God fearing educated people don't) it would have been from practical standpoint (like not planting fields with the same crop year after year...)

....so any day now some yahoo is going to come around telling us that we are going to hell for not practicing good crop rotation techniques!

What would Mr. Kasey suggest? All the good christian couples who love each other and love God should divorce??? or not have kids?? (lunacy)

Kasey...run, don't walk down to your local community college and take an intro to Bio course. Even the Christian universities will teach this basic truth...hurry...don't wait.

I wonder if Kasey doesn't eat shellfish either.

U R my Sonshine said:

Danhalen....Kayey doesn't have the basic "biology" education to back up his claim to know what constitutes a race. He thinks if a horse and donkey mate the mule is a new species. It is just a mule and is infertile and doesn't qualify as a species...ignorance.

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I can not say that until I get a working definition of "race" from Kasey. Please, Kasey, define what it is you are defending.

gaijin178 said:

I wonder if Kasey doesn't eat shellfish either.

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For he shall surely burn if he does.

See this is what I am getting at...this was the time God was teaching about practicality. And it was about animals...not humans. Those other verses about people were so CLEARLY about not mixing people of different FAITHS/Religions. A bigot turns them to mean race...but it was so obviously about religions, that I don't even comprehend how they can construe any different meaning.

Today with transportation having been readily available throughout the past few centuries.... just because you are of Asian decent...doesn't make you a Toaist or Buddist automatically. You could easily be Christian and a God chosen partner in marriage to a white Christain. And vice versa.

The igonroance is stifling on this matter. Just stifling.

Danhalen said:

I can not say that until I get a working definition of "race" from Kasey. Please, Kasey, define what it is you are defending.

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I am saying in all humility that he really "may not" know.

Kasey??

gaijin178 said:

I wonder if Kasey doesn't eat shellfish either.

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Eating shellfish can actually pose several health risks.

MarkT said:

There's no reason to believe interracial breeding leads to survival. Interracial children inevitably choose sides. The recent votes in France and the Netherlands, for example, show us that people desire a national identity. Emotions are tied to this result. Not intellectual reasoning. In fact the intellectual reasons for one state are overridden by the emotional desire of the people to keep the states separate.

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So you don't think its got anything to do with a rejection by the mass of people of the neo-liberal "Anglo-Saxon" model economy presented by the EU constitution as opposed to the more protectionist, welfare oriented "French" model economy espoused by the European left?

Just a thought

Scholar in training said:

Eating shellfish can actually pose several health risks.

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So can breathing.

I think that what it all comes down to with us beings, is that we often have our own upbringing that influences how we believe. This is called socialization. It happens to every being when they are growing up. There are many factors that contribute to this such as country, county, city, churches, parents, brothers and sisters, friends, community members, political parties, diversity, everything. Some people are brought up to believe that it is ok to date/marry anyone you like, regardless of color and regardless or religious tradition. My family was like this and that is why I am the person that I am today. Not to defend Kasey, but I have to almost feel sorry for him because of his socialization which led him to be this way. He may have grown up in an area of the world that does not have much diversity and so to see two people "mixing" with others, it might seem strange and even wrong. So when he became a Christian, he tried to find verses in the bible that 'might' help him feel better about what he was seeing.

I did this too when I was a Christian to a certain extent. My heart was very liberal so to speak but my communty was not. So I spent time trying to find scripture that refuked what was being taught. Needless to say, we all are guilty at one point in our lives for taking something that has some truth, and changing the way that it means to us creating a new truth. It all is just a misconception of reality. We have taken reality and changed it to become a new reality that fits into our world views.

Scholar in training said:

Eating shellfish can actually pose several health risks.

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Ok then, so who about wearing a coton/poly blend t-shirt? I was trying to make a point.

The Seeker said:

So you don't think its got anything to do with a rejection by the mass of people of the neo-liberal "Anglo-Saxon" model economy presented by the EU constitution as opposed to the more protectionist, welfare oriented "French" model economy espoused by the European left?

Just a thought

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That would be more like it...yes. : points to french flag on upper left hand of screen:

gaijin178 said:

I think that what it all comes down to with us beings, is that we often have our own upbringing that influences how we believe. This is called socialization. It happens to every being when they are growing up. There are many factors that contribute to this such as country, county, city, churches, parents, brothers and sisters, friends, community members, political parties, diversity, everything. Some people are brought up to believe that it is ok to date/marry anyone you like, regardless of color and regardless or religious tradition. My family was like this and that is why I am the person that I am today. Not to defend Kasey, but I have to almost feel sorry for him because of his socialization which led him to be this way. He may have grown up in an area of the world that does not have much diversity and so to see two people "mixing" with others, it might seem strange and even wrong. So when he became a Christian, he tried to find verses in the bible that 'might' help him feel better about what he was seeing.

I did this too when I was a Christian to a certain extent. My heart was very liberal so to speak but my communty was not. So I spent time trying to find scripture that refuked what was being taught. Needless to say, we all are guilty at one point in our lives for taking something that has some truth, and changing the way that it means to us creating a new truth. It all is just a misconception of reality. We have taken reality and changed it to become a new reality that fits into our world views.

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Truer words are seldom spoken

gaijin178 said:

Ok then, so who about wearing a coton/poly blend t-shirt? I was trying to make a point.

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It illustrates a point, just like the laws Kasey was talking about (minus the racist undertones). In this case, part of the point behind these laws (not mixing fabric, not eating certain foods) was to keep the Jews from getting involved with the pagan religions of the nations surrounding them. If they were introduced to the cultural aspects of another nation, they would almost certainly be introduced to the religious aspects as well (similar to how our country has adopted democracy from the Greeks but has also embraced some pagan aspects of Greek society like astrology; have you ever looked up the numbers of New Age pagans in the U.S. today?).