Locusts Swarming

1whirlwind · Apr 25, 2011

Zadok7000 said:
"appear to look like them"? Cmon, it's not that complicated whirlwind...
They are described similarly because they ARE THE SAME.

Satan is transformed into an angel of light....he appears to be one but...is he?

The horses and the horsemen are not the same. They will work together but one rules the other. The horses are released in the fifth trump...the horsemen at the sixth.

So you admit that the locust army in Rev. 9 is being described in Joel 2:5?

The fallen angels are the horsemen riding the horses...locusts. Two different groups working together. Joel 2 is the sixth trumpet.

You keep saying that, and yet you present no evidence in the 6th trumpet scriptures. There is no evidence. I know it's painful to admit, but true.

I did present evidence...do ye not see? I repeat....

Revelation 9:1-3 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

At the fifth trump the locusts were unleased upon the earth. They are the locust army, the "horses," and they are many! That is the first woe. Then.....

9:13-17 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

The fallen angels are the "horsemen" that use the locust army. They are the second woe.

It doesn't apply to Muslims, period. YOU are assigning that meaning to it.

I believe it does apply to Muslims.

How many fallen angels come with satan?

Many. I'll go into it later...time for Glen Beck right now.

.

POSTIOS · Apr 25, 2011

7000, not 200 mill.

Zadok7000 · Apr 26, 2011

POSTIOS said:
7000, not 200 mill.

Exactly. Therefore, the 6th trumpet describes neither satan nor his angels arrival. Their ACTIONS (since they arrived in previous trumpets) yes, but arrival, no.

Zadok7000 · Apr 26, 2011

1whirlwind said:
Satan is transformed into an angel of light....he appears to be one but...is he?

Do you even realize that is a non-sequitur?

We're talking about God's descriptions of things to come, not Satan's lies.
The fact is that the army in Joel 2 is the exact same army as the 5th trumpet. You cannot prove otherwise scripturally, no matter how often you repeat your theory (see hisdaughterjen).

I did present evidence...do ye not see? I repeat....

I "see it" every time, but the problem is, it does not buttress your opinion. Be honest with yourself. You don't see Satan mentioned at all. You don't see his arrival described at all. You don't see anyones arrival described at all. What you do see is 4 angels being loosed from the Euphrates (not heaven) and they use an army of 200 million already on the earth to do their dirty work. Look closely again, that's angels mentioned DISTINCTLY from the 200 million. Use your noodle. 2 trumpets mention stars falling from heaven - the 3rd and 5th. Those are your only 2 options for satan and his angels arrival. NOT the 6th.

I believe it does apply to Muslims.

Exactly my point.

lilmissmontana · Apr 26, 2011

Zadok7000 said:
But I feel confident that is the way our Father made me and wants me.

totally how I feel about me

but suffice to say that no man's word can be trusted when it comes to the Bible.

And that's totally how I feel, as well

So I went and spent a signifigant amount of time examing the whole picture ... I see where you're coming frrom ... but I'm still thinking they can be the middle east nations swarming ... not saying that's the absolute truth ... saying there's a very good case for it ...

... and I was also thinking about rightly dividing the Word ... seperating the flesh teaching from the spiritual teaching ... it could be both ...

anyway, here's my 'evidence' ...

I'm starting with the scripture Revelation 9:3 because that's the where locusts is introduced as a subject ...

Revelation 9:3
the trumps

And there came out of the smoke locusts
upon the earth: and unto them was given
power, as the scorpions of the earth have
power.

locusts
Strongs Greek # 200

... akris ... appar. from the same as 206 ... a locust (as pointed, or as lightening on the top of vegetation) - locust

206 ... akron ... neut. of an adjective probably akin to the base of 188; the extremity: one end ... other, tip, top, uttermost part

188 ... akmen ... acc. of a noun ("acme") akin to ake (a point) and mean the same; adverb just now, i.e. still - yet

Revelation 9:3 supporting verses

Exodus 10:4
the plague of locusts

Else, if thou refuse to let my people go, behold,
tomorrow will I bring the locusts into thy coast:

locusts
Strongs 697 ... Hebrew ...

arbeh ... from 7235; a locust (from it's rapid increase) - grasshopper, locust ...

Proverbs 30:27
the words of Agur ... locusts > 697

the locusts have no king,
yet go they forth all them by bands.

note: in groups

Judges 7:12
Gideon's men reduced to three hundred

And the Midianites and the Amalekites, and all
the children of the east lay along in the valley
like grasshoppers for multitude; and their cam-
els were without number, as the sand by the sea-
side for multitude.

notes: innumerable

grasshoppers ... also 697 ... locusts ...

Judges 6:5
Midian oppresses Israel

For they come up with their cattle and their
tents, and they came as grasshoppers for mult-
tude; for both they and their camels were with-
ut number: and they entered into the land to
destroy it.

grasshoppers ... 697 ... locusts

note: real locusts don't have cattle ...

Judes 6:33
the call of Gideon

Then all the Mideonites and the Amalekites and
the children of the east were gathered together,
and went over, and pitched in the valley of Jez-
reel.

the supporting verses give the type ...

the verses supporting locust as the subject don't appear to be the type that would be wearing crowns of the Lord in any shape, way, or form ... as the subject, this train of thought has to carry over to verse 7 ...

________________________________________

Revelation 9:7
the trumps

And the shapes of the locusts were like unto
horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads
were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces
were as the faces of men.

notes

locusts ... Greek ... same as verse 3 ... 200
locusts are the subject ...
in a line ... uniform ... like well disciplined soldiers ...
like gold ... not of gold ...
they looked like men ...

Revelation 9:7 supporting verses

Nahum 3:17
the overthrow of Ninevah

Thy crowned are as the locusts, and thy
captains as the great grasshoppers, which
camp in the hedges in the cold day, but
when the sun ariseth they flee away, and
their place is not known where they are.

this verse totally reminds me of the Talaban ...

crowned
Strongs
Hebrew

4502 ... minnzar ... from 5144: a prince - crowned

5144 ... nazar ... ; a prime root: to hold aloof, i.e. (intr) abstain (from food and drink, from impurity, and even from divine worship [i.e. apostatize]; spec to set apart (to sacred purposes) dvote: - consecrate, seperate (-ing, self)

Exekiel 23:42
the abominations of the two sisters

And a voice of a multitude being at ease
was with her: and with men of the common
sort were brought Sabeabs from the wilder-
ess, which put bracelets upon their hands,
and beautiful crowns upon their heads.

crowns
5850 from 5849

5850 ... atarath ... a crown

5849 ... atar ... a prime root; to encircle (for attack or protection); esp. to crown (lit or fig) - compass, crown

Zechariah 6:11,14
Joshua - a symbol of the priest-king

Then take silver and gold, and make crowns,
and set them upon the head of Joshua the
son of Jos-e-dech.

notes

disobedience was cause of captivity

turbons are often woven for princes out of fine silk and materials of silver and gold ...

crowns ... same ... 5850 from 5849

Revelation 6:14
Joshua - a symbol of the priest-king

And the crowns shall be to Helem, and to Tobijah
and to Jedaiah, and to Hen the son of Zephaniah,
for a memorial in the temple of Lord

crowns ... the same as verse 11 ... and all of the following verses ... the study brought me full circle back to Revelation ...

Revelation 12:3
the great red dragon

And there appeared another wonder in heaven;
and behold a great red dragon having seven heads
and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his head.

note ... each one of the heads is wearing one crown ... the only possible way to interrupt a single head on here would have to use the meaning I first gave for crown ... it's the only meaning of the single of crown that could fit ...

and here ...

Revelation 13:1
the first beast

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw
a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads,
and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns and
upon his heas the name of blashemy.

my conclusion ... I believe there is a very strong case here for the Arab nations swarming ... and at the least it it evidence that says the opposing arguement can't be concluded as 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' ... and I concluded I agree with the study I just did ...

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, my friend ... peace

Ronald · Apr 26, 2011

The premise the speaker put forth is that the fifth trump sounded…in 1969, beginning the forty years of probation…..releasing the locusts. Some of the events associated with “the locusts” swarming in 1969 are excerpts taken from…..

And so it began. The locusts were released:

This scenario has much imagination but it is not correct. We are in the end times but the first, second, third, fourth or fifth trumpets have not sounded yet!

"In Rev. 8:7, the first trumpet sounds and fire, hail and blood are released. One third of all the trees and grass on earth are burned."
That hasn't happened in history!

"The second trumpet sounds and something like a huge mountain on fire gets thrown into the sea and kills 1/3 of the life in the sea and destroys 1/3 of the ships in the sea."
That hasn't happened in history!

"Third trumpet sounds and a star falls from heaven that is blazing like a torch. It poisons one third of all the rivers and springs, causing death to those who drink it." Of course it isn't a star, but an asteroid or nuclear missiles, maybe?
This hasn't happened to this extreme in history.

"The fourth trumpet brings darkness from the smoke that blocks out one third of the sunlight, moonlight and starlight." That's effecting 1/3 of the planet. This could be caused by a super-volcanic explosion similar to the one theorized in Yellowstone.
This hasn't happened yet!

"The fifth trumpet releases an angel who has the key to the bottomless pit... This verse supports the volcanic eruption scenario. This event causes a worldwide earthquake and cracks open a fiessure in the earth, a passage to the abyss ..."
All above quotes from "HELL ... IF I KNOW" by Ronald D. Bruno hell-ifiknow-rdb.com

The intensity and severity of the Great Tribulation period goes far beyond what we've seen in history thus far. So hang on tight to your faith, Hell on earth is coming!

1whirlwind · Apr 26, 2011

Zadok7000 said:
Do you even realize that is a non-sequitur?

We're talking about God's descriptions of things to come, not Satan's lies.
The fact is that the army in Joel 2 is the exact same army as the 5th trumpet. You cannot prove otherwise scripturally, no matter how often you repeat your theory (see hisdaughterjen).

You brought up appearing as something means it is the same. As shown above...it isn't.

I see differences in the horses and horsemen...why don't you?

I "see it" every time, but the problem is, it does not buttress your opinion. Be honest with yourself. You don't see Satan mentioned at all. You don't see his arrival described at all. You don't see anyones arrival described at all. What you do see is 4 angels being loosed from the Euphrates (not heaven) and they use an army of 200 million already on the earth to do their dirty work. Look closely again, that's angels mentioned DISTINCTLY from the 200 million. Use your noodle. 2 trumpets mention stars falling from heaven - the 3rd and 5th. Those are your only 2 options for satan and his angels arrival. NOT the 6th.

Revelation 9:14-19 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

The locusts were released at the fifth....they are the horses. At the sixth trumpet they have riders. Who are they?

WW - I believe it does apply to Muslims.

Zadok - Exactly my point.

And you believe it doesn't. Then may I ask...who do you believe they are? Are there that many fallen angels? If the fallen angels are the horses...who are the horsemen? Also consider.....

Joel 1:6,15 For a nation is come up upon My land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion. (15) Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in My holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

2:23-26 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for He hath given you the former rain moderately, and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first [month]. And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil. And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, My great army which I sent among you. And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and My people shall never be ashamed.

.

Zadok7000 · Apr 26, 2011

Ronald said:
This scenario has much imagination but it is not correct. We are in the end times but the first, second, third, fourth or fifth trumpets have not sounded yet!

Right!
Though I disagree with most of the rest of your post (intrepretation).

Zadok7000 · Apr 26, 2011

1whirlwind said:
You brought up appearing as something means it is the same. As shown above...it isn't.

Then you really don't know what a non-sequitur is...
DESCRIBED THE SAME WAY BY GOD.

The locusts were released at the fifth....they are the horses. At the sixth trumpet they have riders. Who are they? etc etc etc

You don't see hisdaughterjen in what you are doing?

1whirlwind · Apr 26, 2011

Zadok7000 said:
Then you really don't know what a non-sequitur is...
DESCRIBED THE SAME WAY BY GOD.

You are saying the comparison isn't relevant...but it is. It is an example of things that appear to be the same...not being the same.

God tells us they appear the same. One group are the locusts and their riders are the fallen angels. They are not the same beings.

You don't see hisdaughterjen in what you are doing?

Is your mirror cracked?

.

Zadok7000 · Apr 26, 2011

1whirlwind said:
God tells us they appear the same.

Case dismissed! Glad to see you have come around.

Is your mirror cracked?

I'm the one breaking down pre-conceived notions, not following them...

1whirlwind · Apr 26, 2011

Zadok7000 said:
Right!
Though I disagree with most of the rest of your post (intrepretation).

After the seals are opened....telling us what will be when the trumpets sound:

Revelation 8:1-2 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

8:6-7 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

Trees, grass, etc. are symbolic of people. Did the first trumpet sound in 1939...WW11, the beginning of the 70 years He promised?

8:8-9 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

Biblical mountains are nations. The sea represents masses of people where the leviathan plays.

Psalm 104:26 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom Thou hast made to play therein.

Isaiah 27:1 In that day the LORD with His sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and He shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Take your pick....Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Atheism, Communism, Marxism. They're all in the sea, all deceived by the serpent. As it is a "mountain (nation) burning with fire," I would choose....Islam, understanding they are joined with Marxist and they have reared their ugly head since WW11 when the Jews returned.

8:10-11 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Oddly, TODAY, April 26th, marks the 25th anniversary of Chernobyl...Wormwood.

8:12-13 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

I see the above as deception, wickedness, loss of morality, etc. darkening our world. All, I believe has taken place within the seventy years since WW11.

We then have the fifth trump...which is the release of the locust army.

Revelation 9:1-5 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

.

1whirlwind · Apr 26, 2011

Zadok7000 said:
Case dismissed! Glad to see you have come around.

He tells us things appear to be the same and yet....they aren't!

I'm the one breaking down pre-conceived notions, not following them...

Should we not first be certain the notions are incorrect before treading on them?

.

Zadok7000 · Apr 26, 2011

1whirlwind said:
After the seals are opened....telling us what will be when the trumpets sound:

Yup.
But don't forget the Elect being Sealed in the chapter prior. The 4 winds cannot blow to hurt the "earth, sea or trees" until they are all Sealed. That should also send you to Dan. 7 when the political beasts dont rise until all 4 winds are blowing. Now what hurts the earth sea or trees...

8:6-7 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

Trees, grass, etc. are symbolic of people. Did the first trumpet sound in 1939...WW11, the beginning of the 70 years He promised?

Earth and Trees, check!
Crazy theory about WWII? Nope.

8:8-9 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

Biblical mountains are nations. The sea represents masses of people where the leviathan plays.

Sea, check! Mountains are nations, yes. This is describing the deadly wound to the political beast system which rises from the sea, imho.

8:10-11 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Oddly, TODAY, April 26th, marks the 25th anniversary of Chernobyl...Wormwood.

Which is completely irrelevant. Stay in God's Word!
Wormwood = bitterness. Why upon the "fountains of waters"? James 3 - Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?...no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
The OT testifies also: Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.

This is not some nuclear plant accident, it is Satan himself. And it cannot occur until the Sealing is complete.

8:12-13 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

I see the above as deception, wickedness, loss of morality, etc. darkening our world. All, I believe has taken place within the seventy years since WW11.

Darkened by something in the sky...hmmm...anything else come to earth when Satan does? Also cannot happen until the Sealing is complete. This 70 years since WWII stuff has got to go...

1whirlwind · Apr 26, 2011

Zadok7000 said:
Yup.
But don't forget the Elect being Sealed in the chapter prior. The 4 winds cannot blow to hurt the "earth, sea or trees" until they are all Sealed. That should also send you to Dan. 7 when the political beasts dont rise until all 4 winds are blowing. Now what hurts the earth sea or trees...

Those are two different events.

Earth and Trees, check!
Crazy theory about WWII? Nope.

We'll see.

Sea, check! Mountains are nations, yes. This is describing the deadly wound to the political beast system which rises from the sea, imho.

How did a head/leader/king receive a deadly wound that can be healed in that trump?

Which is completely irrelevant. Stay in God's Word!
Wormwood = bitterness. Why upon the "fountains of waters"? James 3 - Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?...no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
The OT testifies also: Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.

This is not some nuclear plant accident, it is Satan himself. And it cannot occur until the Sealing is complete.

Satan doesn't come out to play until the sixth trump. He's certainly behind the scenes spewing poison but was he the "nation of fire?" The sealing of the 144,000 is completed before Satan's release...at the sixth trump.

Darkened by something in the sky...hmmm...anything else come to earth when Satan does? Also cannot happen until the Sealing is complete. This 70 years since WWII stuff has got to go...

Yes, the fallen angels but...not at that point. The sealing is completed before the sixth trump...when they arrive.

WW11 and all that has happened in these past seventy years is very interesting. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. But, it is supposition.

.

Zadok7000 · Apr 26, 2011

1whirlwind said:
Those are two different events.

What are?? 4 winds blowing and 4 winds blowing???

We'll see.

Trees and earth and sea, there for a reason in the first 2 trumpets...dont ignore it.

How did a head/leader/king receive a deadly wound that can be healed in that trump?

What's the question? It's another view of chapter 13.

Satan doesn't come out to play until the sixth trump. He's certainly behind the scenes spewing poison but was he the "nation of fire?" The sealing of the 144,000 is completed before Satan's release...at the sixth trump.

You keep repeating this mantra but offer ZERO EVIDENCE. Give me the sentence in the 6th trumpet that details satan's arrival. You can't because it's not there!!

Yes, the fallen angels but...not at that point. The sealing is completed before the sixth trump...when they arrive.

The sealing is completed before the FIRST TRUMP. Prove otherwise.

WW11 and all that has happened in these past seventy years is very interesting. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. But, it is supposition.

"Interesting" means nothing and is un-Biblical. Supposition is accurate. All supposition is wrong. God is right.

Ronald · Apr 27, 2011

Zadok7000 said:
Zadok7000 said:

Right!
Though I disagree with most of the rest of your post (intrepretation).

Click to expand...

I'm quoting literal scripture starting from Rev.8:7 -- not much interpretation except for possible causes of the devastation.
Read the text, none of those events happened. Exactly how it all happens ... just giving plausible scenarios.

1whirlwind · Apr 27, 2011

Ronald said:
I'm quoting literal scripture starting from Rev.8:7 -- not much interpretation except for possible causes of the devastation.
Read the text, none of those events happened. Exactly how it all happens ... just giving plausible scenarios.

Hi Ronald,

We must see what the vision means for the literal scripture you quote doesn't speak of literal things. The fire, hailstones, mountains, etc. are symbolic...not literal.

.

1whirlwind · Apr 27, 2011

Zadok7000 said:
What are?? 4 winds blowing and 4 winds blowing???

No. The "four winds" aren't released until the sealing has been accomplished and then...the tribulation begins and it begins at the sixth trump.

Revelation 7:1-3 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The servants are sealed before the release...and the winds are released in the sixth trumpet.....see [Rev.9:13-15] below. It tells when they are released!

7:9-14 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Trees and earth and sea, there for a reason in the first 2 trumpets...dont ignore it.

Trees, earth and sea have been from the beginning...all the trumpets concern them/us.

What's the question? It's another view of chapter 13.

You wrote...."Sea, check! Mountains are nations, yes. This is describing the deadly wound to the political beast system which rises from the sea, imho," to which I replied...."How did a head/leader/king receive a deadly wound that can be healed in that trump?"

Your reply is not an answer.

You keep repeating this mantra but offer ZERO EVIDENCE. Give me the sentence in the 6th trumpet that details satan's arrival. You can't because it's not there!!

Revelation 9:13-15 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

6:12 (666)- 17 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

All of the above, him sitting on the throne, the wrath...is all about Satan, the pretender, the fake christ, pretending to be the Lamb. He is the first rider on the white horse but when does he arrive?

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Five months is his "short time." Those months end this age.

The sealing is completed before the FIRST TRUMP. Prove otherwise.

I did...see above. The sealing takes place and then the tribulation. Now, you prove where the sealing is BEFORE THE FIRST TRUMP.

"Interesting" means nothing and is un-Biblical. Supposition is accurate. All supposition is wrong. God is right.

God is always right. All supposition isn't always wrong.

Zadok...truly the wrong supposition is what is in your mind about when Satan arrives. You have shown NOTHING except your statement that Satan arrived previously.

.

.

Zadok7000 · Apr 27, 2011

First off, in case there was any confusion about my point of view: I don't believe the Sealing is complete and none of the Trumpets have sounded yet. Satan and his angels arrival (along with all the rest of the events the trumpets describe) is future to us. And I believe his time on earth has been shortened to 5 months. Now then:

1whirlwind said:
No. The "four winds" aren't released until the sealing has been accomplished and then...the tribulation begins and it begins at the sixth trump.

Revelation 7:1-3 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The servants are sealed before the release...and the winds are released in the sixth trumpet.....see [Rev.9:13-15] below. It tells when they are released!

Why? Because the angel standing before the throne tells the 6th angel to blow his trumpet? Nothing about the 4 winds in there. ZIP, NADA, ZILCH. However, Dan. 7 DOES talk about it. And what do you know, it's happening as the 7 headed, 10 horned beast rises! behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. Meaning: the Elect are already Sealed when the Beast rises.

Trees, earth and sea have been from the beginning...all the trumpets concern them/us.

You are glossing over the fact that the Bible says differently in specifics. Only the 1st and 2nd trumpet mention trees, earth and sea. Symbolic of course, but none of them are mentioned in the other trumpets. 3rd is rivers, 4th is sun/moon/stars, 5th and 6th are specifically people. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
How can they be Sealed if the Sealing doesn't come into play until the 6th? Makes absolutely no sense.

You wrote...."Sea, check! Mountains are nations, yes. This is describing the deadly wound to the political beast system which rises from the sea, imho," to which I replied...."How did a head/leader/king receive a deadly wound that can be healed in that trump?"

Your reply is not an answer.

A. I didn't understand your question.
B. I answered the best I could referring you to the parallel verses in chapter 13. The sea is the people (political system - Beast from the sea), and the mountain does the wounding to the 1 head. Or more properly said, it IS the wound itself since we are told the 7 heads are 7 mountains.

Revelation 9:13-15 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

6:12 (666)- 17 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

All of the above, him sitting on the throne, the wrath...is all about Satan, the pretender, the fake christ, pretending to be the Lamb. He is the first rider on the white horse but when does he arrive?

Since you can't find anything relevent to your point in the 6th trumpet, you go to the 1st seal and then the 6th seal?
BTW, the 6th Seal is the END of the 5th months, not the beginning. There is a complete lack of cohesion in your arguments.

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