liturgical clothes for laity?

[Esdra]

Hi

I've often seen the wife of the deacon of our neighbouring parish wear liturgical clothes (of course without stole. But like the servers) when he celebrated the liturgy of the word.

Is that acceptable?
If a laity (male or female) does so would they also be allowed to wear it?

Have you ever experienced something like that in your parish?

Esdra

 

[KatherineS]

Are you referring to the alb?

The alb is an adaptation of the white garment we receive at baptism and symbolizes the dignity of a baptized Christian. In theory any baptized person could wear it (actually in the Ge'ez Church, women do wear white to church for this reason). But in practice it is usually limited to cetain liturgical ministers.

The surplice (if that is what your reference is) is a further abbreviation of the alb, with the same symbolism. It is usually worn over the cassock.

The cassock is the black, floor length garment worn by clerics. It is not a liturgical garment per se, but a clerical or academic garment. It is often worn by those substituting for clerics (altar servers, choir members, etc.).

The cassock is not reserved to ordained clergy (deacons, priests and bishops) but those who have commenced theological studies, which at the origin of the cassock was the only field of formal study. As other fields of study developed (law and medicine), the cassock was worn by them as well (evolving to the academic gown and the judge's robes).

The cassocked seminarians and men in minor orders assisted the priest at Mass and chanted the Mass and Office in choir. Hence when non-clerics assumed these functions (alter servers and choir members) they also wore the cassock as a symbol of their function.

Again, the cassock is not a liturgical item but the same garment as the academic gown symbolizing learning and education

 

[Esdra]

Are you referring to the alb?

The alb is an adaptation of the white garment we receive at baptism and symbolizes the dignity of a baptized Christian. In theory any baptized person could wear it (actually in the Ge'ez Church, women do wear white to church for this reason). But in practice it is usually limited to cetain liturgical ministers.

The surplice (if that is what your reference is) is a further abbreviation of the alb, with the same symbolism. It is usually worn over the cassock.

The cassock is the black, floor length garment worn by clerics. It is not a liturgical garment per se, but a clerical or academic garment. It is often worn by those substituting for clerics (altar servers, choir members, etc.).

The cassock is not reserved to ordained clergy (deacons, priests and bishops) but those who have commenced theological studies, which at the origin of the cassock was the only field of formal study. As other fields of study developed (law and medicine), the cassock was worn by them as well (evolving to the academic gown and the judge's robes).

The cassocked seminarians and men in minor orders assisted the priest at Mass and chanted the Mass and Office in choir. Hence when non-clerics assumed these functions (alter servers and choir members) they also wore the cassock as a symbol of their function.

Again, the cassock is not a liturgical item but the same garment as the academic gown symbolizing learning and education

Yes I know, I am very unspecific with this question.
But I still don't know all those terms, also not in German. Sorry for that.

I've first seen a cassock in the Benedictine Abbey I spent the Holy Week at.
I was even allowed to serve with the incense wearing one, together with a surplice.
Before that I've never seen anybody wearing a cassock. (I actually thought that's something like a habit because that's a Benedictine monastery, as the habit of the Benedictines's also black.)

I think mentioned woman wore an alb.
So, that would be permittable, for the deacon's wife as well as for a laity doing a ministry of the word, right?

Servers in Austria (Europe) usually also wear something like an alba together with a cord in the liturgical colour and rather seldom a cassock and a surplice.

Esdra

 

[KatherineS]

Yes I know, I am very unspecific with this question.
But I still don't know all those terms, also not in German. Sorry for that.

I've first seen a cassock in the Benedictine Abbey I spent the Holy Week at.
I was even allowed to serve with the incense wearing one, together with a surplice.
Before that I've never seen anybody wearing a cassock. (I actually thought that's something like a habit because that's a Benedictine monastery, as the habit of the Benedictines's also black.)

Yes, the cassock and the Benedictine habit look very similar but are really different garments.

I think mentioned woman wore an alb.
So, that would be permittable, for the deacon's wife as well as for a laity doing a ministry of the word, right?

Not only permitable but normative and desirable if the person was leading a service of the Word or other service such as Morning Prayer, Benediction, etc.

Servers in Austria (Europe) usually also wear something like an alba together with a cord in the liturgical colour and rather seldom a cassock and a surplice.

Esdra

Yes. I think servers in the alb is preferabe to cassock & surplice, although my parish rcently switch the wrong way in my opinion (it is not a big deal).



BTW, the abbey you spent Holy Week at, would that be the Abbey of Melk by chance? I visited there once. It is quite a place.

 

[Esdra]

Yes, the cassock and the Benedictine habit look very similar but are really different garments.

Indeed, now I know. Thanks.

Not only permitable but normative and desirable if the person was leading a service of the Word or other service such as Morning Prayer, Benediction, etc.

I see. Laity leading a service usually don't wear any of the above where I live.
I guess the deacon's wife ministerd as a lector thus the alba.

Yes. I think servers in the alb is preferable to cassock & surplice, although my parish recently switch the wrong way in my opinion (it is not a big deal).

What did they swich? Sorry, I don't you get you here I guess.

BTW, the abbey you spent Holy Week at, would that be the Abbey of Melk by chance? I visited there once. It is quite a place.

No it was the Archabbey St. Peter in Salzburg. (Beautiful romanesque monastery refurbished in baroque style. I love romanesque architecture! )
The Abbey of Melk is too far away for me. I live in the Tyrol, near Innsbruck, if you know that. That's in the far west of Austria.

And two years ago I was in the Abbey of Kremsmuenster in Upper Austria. - That's actually where my journey back to Rome really began.

The Abbey of Melk is an architectonic masterpiece. Especially if you love baroque architecture.
And did you like it in Melk?

Esdra

 

[KatherineS]

I see. Laity leading a service usually don't wear any of the above where I live.
I guess the deacon's wife ministerd as a lector thus the alba.

it wouldn't be required. Different palces would have different customs.

What did they swich? Sorry, I don't you get you here I guess.

Our parish altar servers used to wear albs. Recently they swtiched to cassock and surplice.

No it was the Archabbey St. Peter in Salzburg. (Beautiful romanesque monastery refurbished in baroque style. I love romanesque architecture! )

Wasn't that used in "The Sound of Music"?

The Abbey of Melk is too far away for me. I live in the Tyrol, near Innsbruck, if you know that. That's in the far west of Austria.

And two years ago I was in the Abbey of Kremsmuenster in Upper Austria. - That's actually where my journey back to Rome really began.

The Abbey of Melk is an architectonic masterpiece. Especially if you love baroque architecture.
And did you like it in Melk?

Esdra

LOVED Melk. It was just a day trip from Vienna and with a boat ride on the Danube. But I had a wonderful time.

 

[Esdra]

it wouldn't be required. Different palces would have different customs.

Indeed, indeed.

Our parish altar servers used to wear albs. Recently they swtiched to cassock and surplice.

Oh I see. I have never seen anyone, as mentioned, wearing cassock and surplice before I spent the Holy Week in St. Peter.

Wasn't that used in "The Sound of Music"?

I must admit that I never saw the movie nor the musical. :/ So I don't really know. But IMO it's quite likely as the Archabbey St. Peter is the oldest monastery north of the Alps (founded 696 AD).

LOVED Melk. It was just a day trip from Vienna and with a boat ride on the Danube. But I had a wonderful time.

Nice. Austria is a beautiful country. Although I seldom come so far east.

 

[KatherineS]

Nice. Austria is a beautiful country. Although I seldom come so far east.

Oh, don't be afraid of "Red Vienna" my friend!

 

[Esdra]

Oh, don't be afraid of "Red Vienna" my friend!

I assume you mean with "red" that Vienna is largely Social Democrat?
Otherwise I don´t get your point.

If that´s the case, I can tell you that I´m not, as my village is also largely Social Democrat, I guess the only one in the Tyrol which has been Social Democrat without break for 40 years or so.

 

[KatherineS]

I assume you mean with "red" that Vienna is largely Social Democrat?
Otherwise I don´t get your point.

If that´s the case, I can tell you that I´m not, as my village is also largely Social Democrat, I guess the only one in the Tyrol which has been Social Democrat without break for 40 years or so.

Really? Yes, I had thought Tyrol was largely conservative.

But you live in a beautiful country. I'm afraid I am too old to return. But in New York City, we have a very fine art museum that specializes in Austrian art Museum Landing Page | www.neuegalerie.org

I try to visit it when I am in New York. And they have a delightful cafe that makes me think I am back in Vienna!

 

[Esdra]

Really? Yes, I had thought Tyrol was largely conservative.

Yes, that's because of the many railway workers (OEBB) that live in my village and they're traditionally Social Democrat. My grandpa also worked fo the OEBB.
In the Inn Valley there used to be a lot of "red villages". But it often also depends on the top candidate of the party I guess. Another "red village" in the Tyrol is Kundl.

But you live in a beautiful country. I'm afraid I am too old to return. But in New York City, we have a very fine art museum that specializes in Austrian art Museum Landing Page | www.neuegalerie.org[/qoute]

Yes, I really love my country. I couldn't imagine living somewhere else.

I try to visit it when I am in New York. And they have a delightful cafe that makes me think I am back in Vienna!

Wow this Café Fledermaus there nearly looks like Café Sacher in Vienna. Amazing! :o