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Lines of Evidence ( Part 1 : ERVs )

lewiscalledhimmaster

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I mean intuition. Even before I 'got religion' I couldn't see how evolution was true.

So before you 'got religion' you felt (intuited) it was untrue, but now you've consider all the lines of evidence which relate to Evolution and you think God did it that way. Correct?
 
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lewiscalledhimmaster

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Intuition is beyond worthless in science, though.

I'd hate to imagine that Charles Darwin didn't have a wee drop of it. In fact, I'm pretty sure he had a whole ocean of it, as he sailed in his wee boat.
 
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The Cadet

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I'd hate to imagine that Charles Darwin didn't have a wee drop of it. In fact, I'm pretty sure he had a whole ocean of it, as he sailed in his wee boat.

It's not a bad way to reach the starting point, but if you actually want to draw conclusions, you need actual evidence. Intuition must constantly be checked by experience and evidence, lest we fall into numerous traps with it. It is intuitive that you could not evolve something as complex as the bacterial flagellum, and yet we have a strong evidence base pointing out how it could have happened. It is intuitive that light shot through two slits should leave two slits of light on the wall, but instead we see an interference pattern. It is intuitive that everything must have a cause, and yet quantum physics shows us that this kind of breaks down at the micro level. Intuition is worthless if not backed up by actual evidence.
 
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lewiscalledhimmaster

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I said it was a good word. I don't think it holds up well, even less the Biblical term 'faith'. When it comes to observing (experiencing) what is in reality we have the various methods, to observe (experience) what is in eternity requires something else.
 
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lewiscalledhimmaster

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'.... It is intuitive that everything must have a cause, ....'

I don't think about that sort of thing much anymore. In fact, the last time I remember contending for such an idea was more than ten years ago. Though I am extremely cautious about using the word 'evolution' alongside such words as spiritual development, there is a very real sense that my beliefs have evolved.
 
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lewiscalledhimmaster

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'....Intuition is worthless if not backed up by actual evidence.

I'm tempted to turn this around for a word like 'intuition' may have been right for John Lennon, but it's no good for this discussion. So let's leave it behind and address your call for 'actual evidence' -- it's not only Charles Darwin who needed us to keep on coming up with the evidence which relates to Evolution -- God also expects us to study the Christian sacred texts, so that we will mature in our spiritual development. The Bible is a different sort of evidence to Charles' books, however both of them are subject to truth. The Bible refers to God (Father, Son and Spirit) as being called 'TRUTH' -- so even the texts of both science and sacred are subject to them being true. Tomorrows evidence which relates to Evolution will change what we think now -- but there are some things which do not change.
 
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AV1611VET

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Tomorrows evidence which relates to Evolution will change what we think now --
We know.

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I don't what you mean there.

It is mathematical in the sense that any genetic trait that confers a reproductive advantage will eventually dominate a population.

I meant the odds against a simple organism changing into a complex one.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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So before you 'got religion' you felt (intuited) it was untrue, but now you've consider all the lines of evidence which relate to Evolution and you think God did it that way. Correct?

I believe that God created these organisms as they appear in the fossil record. The more complex they are seen to be the less likely it is that they evolved in a haphazard, purposeless manner.
 
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SteveB28

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I believe that God created these organisms as they appear in the fossil record. The more complex they are seen to be the less likely it is that they evolved in a haphazard, purposeless manner.

There is nothing haphazard about the process, once the initial mutations take place.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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You are still talking about an accumulation of small changes. The progress of those changes is a mathematical function, plain and simple.

I'll use the term 'hand wave' in a little different way. Science hand 'waives' these changes into existence. The process by which these changes are believed to occur are way too fantastic. Just diagramming a single one of millions, if not billions, of changes that must occur in a single evolving organism would probably take a ream of paper.
 
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AV1611VET

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