line in the sand

[ahman]

ok, here is a hypothetical situation.

a christian who believes that marriage should be the only place to have sex but likes girls/boys goes out to a party, gets blind drunk and starts fooling around with someone...in semi knowledge of their beliefs(being in a drunken state and more or less up for anything) and it goes further than they had planned...

1) What is the definitive line for sex?
2) Is having sex in full knowledge of God's word really bad?...and if you were in that situation what would/did you do about it?
3)Where would you draw the line to be safe? assuming people will be young and free and likely to experiment

 

[BarbB]

Hi ahman - welcome to CF!

Well, I'd say that the lesson in your OP is "DON'T DRINK - EVER!". It's not good for your self-control. (Howzat?)

 

[JustJack!]

Yes, drinking is bad. Makes ya queezy, screws up your judgement, kills your liver, ect, ect. That why I only smoke.

As for my line in th sand. I think oral sex, anal sex, vaginal/penile (I still giggle everytime I hear that word) constitutes sex.

 

[Myah]

Eh..why die healthy *puffs a marlboro* What I wouldn't give for some mead right now....

 

[JustJack!]

I wasn't talking about cigarettes.

 

[ahman]

yeah, the lesson is don't drink, but then, if you want to be saintly, then it takes all the fun out of life...i think you have to find a balance, and its personal in my opinion, but what does everyone else use as guidelines and is there any scripture regarding it...

like i know paul harped on about it for ages...but how do you adapt it to the youthful party scence of schoolies week for example?

 

[Johnnz]

The first step is to determine what your values are. Nothing described in the post was consistent with Christian values. Sexual values won't be seperate from, or any different from, any other values that don't have a Christian basis.

And Ahmen, being saintly does not take the fun out of life. Mere religiosity will, but Christianity is about fulfillment, not deprivation.

John
NZ

 

[white dove]

ok, here is a hypothetical situation.

a christian who believes that marriage should be the only place to have sex but likes girls/boys goes out to a party, gets blind drunk and starts fooling around with someone...in semi knowledge of their beliefs(being in a drunken state and more or less up for anything) and it goes further than they had planned...

1) What is the definitive line for sex?
2) Is having sex in full knowledge of God's word really bad?...and if you were in that situation what would/did you do about it?
3)Where would you draw the line to be safe? assuming people will be young and free and likely to experiment

er??
so are you suggesting that b/c this person is 'blind drunk,' that this person has no 'full knowledge of God's word?' I'm just confused about the first part of question 2, is all....

but here are my replies to your other questions:

1. As a Christian, if one lusts over a man/woman in their mind, they are sinning, period (mentions the words: committing adultery in the Bible). Esp. if this person believes that sex should be enjoyed solely within a marriage & b/t a wife & her husband, this person should feel guilt guilt guilt over it!*scold* But, really, if that is how the person believes, they know that they did wrong by fooling around (even if they were 'just drunk outta their minds' at the time). People are still responsible for their actions.

2. {first part of the question: ??? If I think I know what you're saying, then yes, if a person knows what God's Word says about a particular issue/situation/act & this person goes against what God says, then yes..that is very bad. Whether or not the person is drunk at the time; in the Bible it also warns against getting drunk b/c then it leads to debauchery, etc etc. (See? God knows us better than we know ourselves *wink wink* ) So, yeah, this person is still very much responsible for their actions. They were aware of God's words on this matter before they got drunk; just b/c they are drunk when they act it out makes no difference~they are still acting it out}
second part of the question: I never fooled around when I'd been drinking...but I have acted pretty toopid

3. I'd like to say: don't drink in the first place...but I know that ppl will do or not do what they do or don't do... Actually, I still will say it: don't drink I had my first drink when I was about 18 or so...and drank on and off since then (never you mind how old I am *scold*) & never really got drunk, sans one time I got kinda messed up; acted like one o' them girls on the Cops show...tripping over herself..talking alot..pointing at people. (I could usually hold my liquor pretty well & I could generally tell when my body'd had enough). But yeah, I got sloppy that night..and had gotten sloppy when I'd had drinks before then, too. But, later on, I realized that I didn't need to drink to have an awesome time. And I figured that if I needed to drink to have a good time, I was either with the wrong group of ppl or I was in the wrong kinda place.....or a combination of the two..*wink wink*
But, for now, I know what God says about getting drunk. And He wants none of it for me, so I don't do it. It's not really difficult for me, as I have learned to forgo certain situations in which drinking would be the primary *thing to do.* God's Word is the greatest reason for not getting drunk though. I want to be obedient to Him. This is only one small way that I can.

so yeah...don't drink..stay in school...& help prevent forest fires, k? *angel wings*

God bless

 

[ahman]

thanks...well, im not entirely certain as to what my values are, they are subject to change the more i learn (christian or not)...which is the whole reason for this thread, to learn what other peoples are, who are more scholarly than me, so that i can learn for if i'm ever in the situation...a lot of my values are based around common sense, and to me, christianity is common sense

^^^that was to john

question 2, by that i mean, having been to chruch and been told that having sex before marriage is not christian and is a sin, does that make it bad compared to someone who does it who does not have any knowledge of christianity and are they the same "badness" or should the christian be more restrained than that?

 

[ahman]

thanks for that white dove, theres pretty much in there what i wanted to hear.
I realise God says to avoid alcohol...but i don't know, if you are honest in your convictions and (from now on ) you are dedicated to having good clean...albeit slightly tipsy fun, is there much harm in just finding another way to have a good time, assuming that your all mates.

also, if you do slip up, apart from repenting and praying for forgiveness...what else can you do?

 

[Buzz Dixon]

The Uniform Code of Military Justice definition of rape is "penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the act."

Contrary to what both a former president and a former speaker of the House have opined, oral sex is sex.

That being said, God isn't going to beat you (rhetorical) up for your sins, He's going to forgive you if you are repentant, so why are you beating yourself up?

If you can't control your drinking, stay away from booze and drugs.

If you can't control your necking and petting, stay away from situations where things can escalate.

 

[ahman]

mm, good advice...thanks guys...i think that the straighter and narrower path is the one for me

hmmm, to me though, it still seems a bit much...like i want to do the right thing, and i would be repentant, but i can see that the next party that comes around, ill still go, i think realistically, that the chances of me (or anyone who has just finished school for that matter...except for some very noble people) will still drink and cavort and generally have fun, so if its all fun and games and no one gets hurt and its in the true spirit (scuse pun) of friendship, is there really any harm?

 

[white dove]

thanks for that white dove, theres pretty much in there what i wanted to hear.
I realise God says to avoid alcohol...but i don't know, if you are honest in your convictions and (from now on ) you are dedicated to having good clean...albeit slightly tipsy fun, is there much harm in just finding another way to have a good time, assuming that your all mates.

also, if you do slip up, apart from repenting and praying for forgiveness...what else can you do?

you're a sweet kid, ahman I have fun with my friends in some pretty basically, normal ways LOL We go out for food, we go to see movies, we go to the arcade....um..art shows...etc. etc. Thing is, there are plenty of things to do but even if there aren't so many where you are from (heh, doubt it..you're an aussie ), you can always just hang out at your friends' houses or whatever. Some of the coolest times I've had w/ my friends revolve around us just hanging out & talking..being silly.

It's great to hear that you realize that when one does slip up, the best thing they can do is go to God with it first & ask forgiveness. Repenting from a particular sin is great...but when ppl do mess up, God understands that the struggle within us still exists, ahman...try checking out Romans 7 7-25 to see just how difficult it can be. See, God understands that, although we try to live according to His Word, sometimes, we fail. But, read on in Romans & see that with Him, we are also more than conquerors (!!!)

anyway...God bless you, ahman ...take care

I gotta go to bed now

 

[savvy]

Yeah, something like this kinda happened to me once...I crossed my own personal line and really wish I hadn't.
I know I am not in my right mind once I start drinking. I still retain enough sense not to drive, get in a car, or have any type of actual sex with anyone (though it was too close to comfort). But I find it difficult to remember what my morals are when alcohol is involved or they get really twisted so that other people could probably be successful in manipulating me in the right circumstances.
I advise not to get drunk with anyone but your very best friends, if you are going to get drunk. People you trust. And someone should remain sober to keep everyone else from doing really stupid things that are going to be regretted once the alcohol wears off (I am usually this person; it's actually pretty disturbing to watch the way drunk people start acting). I myself don't find drinking to be especially amusing anymore, after the few experimental times I attempted it.

 

[ahman]

yeah, im kinda the same now...like at first it was a rush and really cool and all that, but now the rush has pretty much worn off and the "oh no, what did i do this time..." line seems to come up far too often.
but yeah, my first time drinking was with my best buddies, and all the good ones have been, and normally theres someone driving so they have to not drink anyway. it works out that way as its just a different avenue for having a laugh, but yeah, i know what you mean about people changing dramatically when they're drunk. problem being they don't notice it/care.
so i also am trying to avoid drinking with anyone but trusted friends as it always seems to be a risk otherwise. regret is a powerful thing. Even if God forgives you, it's not always easy to forgive yourself.

"A man is only truly old when his dreams turn to regrets."-I cant remember who.

 

[BarbB]

Hi ahman. Just once, at a big party, don't drink anything or start drinking 2 hours later than everyone else. You may never drink again when you see what horse's rumps your friends make of themselves. It's not a pretty sight. And, believe it or not, it's possible to have much more fun without drinking when you are with friends!

I drank from 16 to 45 and stopped when my stomach couldn't take it anymore. It was after that that I quit partying, met and married a really good man and heard God when he said "Come, follow me".

 

[ahman]

cheers, yeah, i'll probably be much more restrained from now on, i dont like waking up with regrets the following morning...or have people think im a tosser.

can't say i'll give up social drinking though...i like the tast of a good beer too much

 

[BarbB]

Good choices, I'd say! I had forgotten about the headaches and stomach -