Like a Baptist, but don't want to be one

Albion · Jul 29, 2019

Radagast said:
Do you mean Baptist churches in the USA in general, or churches in the ABCUSA (American Baptist Churches USA) denomination?

The second of the two. That's the formal name of the convention, and although it seems redundant to me too, I wanted our friend to be able to look it up online and not run into some other churches with a similar name. There are several other Baptist conventions that ordain women, by the way, but the American Baptist Churches are the best known of the bunch.

GodLovesCats · Jul 29, 2019

Mountainmanbob said:
You may be cutting yourself short there?

I don't attend a Baptist church but my brother does and it is a fine church, very solid teaching.

What would the big deal be about not having women pastors? Seems to be the biblical stance?

The big deal to me is gender discrimirnation. How does the same church that pushed hard for separations between church and state violate the Equal Employment Opportunity Act by only allowing men to minister at their churches?

GodLovesCats · Jul 29, 2019

Oscarr said:
I don't know about the Methodist churches, but the Presbyterian Church of NZ doesn't require a fixed-term tenure for its ministers. A minister can remain in a church as long as he wants to. There is absolutely no pressure for him or her to move on by the Presbytery or the local church.

I grew up in a Methodist church because my mom was a member. She told me they move ministers so no congregations will be based on the preachers, saying some churches have closed after longtime ministers retired. I don't believe it. The Vineyard actually built a much bigger sanctuary with the same pastors for a long time. We lived across the street from a house that is owned by the same church.

Andrewn · Jul 29, 2019

Oscarr said:
Of course, in these days where gender discrimination is seen to be a bad thing, employers, including churches, can be sued if they are seen to discriminate on the basis of gender, in the same way as discrimination on the basis of race and colour.

Thank God, in the Free World, we have separation of church and state.

Mountainmanbob · Jul 29, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
The big deal to me is gender discrimirnation. How does the same church that pushed hard for separations between church and state violate the Equal Employment Opportunity Act by only allowing men to minister at their churches?

No big deal. There are (a few churches) around that have women pastors. In the United States all are free to worship there.

GodLovesCats · Jul 29, 2019

Mountainmanbob said:
No big deal. There are (a few churches) around that have women pastors. In the United States all are free to worship there.

I never said a church must actually hire female pastors. I just don't want any church to have a policy that goes smack against the EEOA.

Albion · Jul 29, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
The big deal to me is gender discrimirnation. How does the same church that pushed hard for separations between church and state violate the Equal Employment Opportunity Act by only allowing men to minister at their churches?

Which church/denomination would that be?

GodLovesCats · Jul 29, 2019

Albion said:
Which church/denomination would that be?

Baptist

GodLovesCats · Jul 29, 2019

I certainly am not a Presbyterian either because they baptize babies.

tampasteve · Jul 29, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
It is not my top issue but I really hate the idea that women are not even allowed to get church leadership jobs in some denominations. Another church policy that bothers me is requiring pastor movement among churches, which Methodists and Presbyterians do.

ChristianForCats said:
I certainly am not a Presbyterian either because they baptize babies.

It seems you may want to continue your research. 1st, not all Methodist ministers are required to move. The UMC church I attended starting in 1998 still has the same head pastor, and he was there several years before I got there. It really depends on more factors than just deciding it is time to move the pastor along.

2nd, not all Presbyterians (or by extension Reformed) churches baptize babies.

I think it would be good to try some more churches, check them out online and in person. Research their affiliations and beliefs to see if they might be a fit. But don't rely 100% on quizzes like the online one, they can't take into account all of the different churches, denominations, etc. that are actually in the USA.

GodLovesCats · Jul 29, 2019

I have been Googling "Christian denominations." The results are not very informative so I need to visit all of the national association websites to figure this out.

BTW I can't get over being baptized when I was a baby, then not being saved until I was 20.

GodLovesCats · Jul 29, 2019

The Gainesville Baptist Church only accepts the KJV Bible for the English translation of the original text so I can't go there. That sucks because the only church closer to me than that one is Christian Scientist.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 29, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
How do I choose one when I am a mix and match?

From the info in the op, it doesn't matter how you choose one. Flip a coin if you want to.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 29, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
The results are not very informative so I need to visit all of the national association websites to figure this out.

God states a different way in His Word to find His Will.
Several times, I reckon.
(like in James)
But He also says not to be double minded (when seeking His choice/wisdom)...
Either fully serve Him, believe Him, obey Him,
or be prepared for His scourging , if as His child whom He loves.

Albion · Jul 29, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
Baptist

Yes, but because there are a dozen or more Baptist conventions and some of them ordain women while some do not (with a couple in between in a way that we need not explain here), it cannot be said that the "Baptists" were on one side of that issue, let alone having "pushed" for the EEOC.

So, it would seem that the problem for a person like yourself would be having the right one of these near enough to your home. If not, would one of the non-denominational churches work?

GodLovesCats · Jul 29, 2019

Albion said:
Yes, but because there are a dozen or more Baptist conventions and some of them ordain women while some do not (with a couple in between in a way that we need not explain here), it cannot be said that the "Baptists" were on one side of that issue, let alone having "pushed" for the EEOC.

So, it would seem that the problem for a person like yourself would be having the right one of these near enough to your home. If not, would one of the non-denominational churches work?

There is a church that claims to be nondenominational, but they emphasize relationships on their website (teaching stuff about marriage, friendships, etc.) instead of putting God's love first.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 29, 2019

Radagast said:
Let's just call the PCUSA and the PCANZ "mainline." That's probably more polite, though less widely understood (I've attended both denominations, by the way, and they're quite similar). Both of these Presbyterian denominations ordain women.

I would contrast the PCUSA and the PCANZ to the more conservative PCA and OPC (in the USA) and to the GPCNZ (in NZ), none of which ordain women.

Perhaps you misread me. What I said was "all the liberal/mainline churches ordain women." I can think of no exceptions to that.

I did not say "all the churches that ordain women are liberal/mainline." On the contrary, I pointed out that some (conservative) Pentecostal churches also ordain women.

I probably went one plus one equals three!

seeking.IAM · Jul 29, 2019

Albion said:
Wasn't it more the case that the Puritans wanted to purify the church of excessive ceremony, ritual, and so on--pretty much what the average fundamentalist today would say is a good policy?

More exactly, I believe they wanted to purify the Church of England of its Catholic ways. So we Anglicans annoyed them until some set out for the new world. You can thank us for that every Thanksgiving...Thanksgiving and the KJV, Anglicans gifts to the USA.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 29, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
I grew up in a Methodist church because my mom was a member. She told me they move ministers so no congregations will be based on the preachers, saying some churches have closed after longtime ministers retired. I don't believe it. The Vineyard actually built a much bigger sanctuary with the same pastors for a long time. We lived across the street from a house that is owned by the same church.

There is a private school system in NZ that retains the same teacher for a class of students that go through the different grades. As the students progress from one year to another, the teacher goes with them. This can be very successful because it retains stability in the teaching, especially if the teacher is very capable and loved by the students. In the public school system a class may have a good teacher one year, and a horrible one the next, and this can negatively affect their educational progress.

It is the same with a church. A good, godly, prayerful pastor who loves the Word of God and preaches it faithfully is always beneficial to the church and should be retained as long as possible so the members can grow spiritually and in grace. It is a tragedy when a great pastor is replaced by one who is liberal, ungodly, controlling, doesn't believe in the virgin birth, miracles of Christ, and sees Christianity as just a system of good morals. Such a pastor could totally undo the years of good work that the previous one has done.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 29, 2019

Andrewn said:
Thank God, in the Free World, we have separation of church and state.

That's no excuse for denying basic human rights, such as equal opportunities for all regardless of race, colour or gender.

Like a Baptist, but don't want to be one

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