Life under grace ...

[Tychicum]

From the book “Grace- The Glorious Theme” by Lewis Sperry Chafer (pages 192 – 193)

Since there is so much delusion in a counterfeit the person most difficult to reach with the Gospel of divine grace is the person who is trying to do all that a Christian ought to do, but is doing it as a means of becoming accepted before God.

His willing acknowledgement of the value of the Christian life his unquestioned reception into the fellowship of believers, and his real sincerity in all Christian activities constitute his greatest hindrance.

Such a one is more deluded than the person who acknowledges no relationship to God.

Both fall short and are lost through their failure to believe on Christ as the all-sufficient Saviour; but naturally the person who has no false hope is more apt to become conscious of the fact that he is lost than is the person who believes he is a Christian.

The law cannot save, and the one who transforms the teachings of grace into a legal system by attempting to do them in order that he may be right with God, is still unsaved.

Turning to meritorious works as a basis of salvation, be those works a precise counterfeit of a true Christian life, is to be under condemnation; for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in His sight.

Turning to meritorious works as the basis of keeping after one is saved, or as a rule of life for the saved, is to return to a by-works relation to God from which one has already been saved.

It is to fall from grace and lose the liberty wherewith Christ made us free. The by-works principle can no more avail for our keeping, than it can avail for our salvation. As God could provide Abraham with a seed under an unconditional covenant, so, under the same unconditional covenant, He could guarantee the future of that seed even to the time when their number shall exceed the stars of the heavens.

Likewise under the present unconditional covenant of grace made in the blood of Christ, God can guarantee the future security of every child of His under grace.

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end of the promise might be sure (Rom 4:16)

Folks often think that salvation has always been by faith alone … and use Abraham as the evidence (as quoted by Paul no less). But they forget that Abraham was long before Moses and the introduction of the "merit system" to evidence faith... which was a temporary requirement … which is now disannulled in this Christian dispensation.

The merit system will again prevail at the end of this dispensation ... during the Millennial Kingdom as evidenced by the Lord’s many prophetic references to merit being a "condition" during his earthly ministry to the nation Israel.

To mix all of these into a confused mass is no less dangerous than the mistake which the Pharisee's made in mixing prophecy related to the Lord's first Advent in with prophecy related to His second coming.

They were looking for a King on a white stallion who would slay all of Israel's enemies ... not some carpenter who spoke in riddles. They tired of the latter and then murdered Him. The King will come ... but not when they had in their confusion expected Him.

IMHO both are very costly errors ...



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[TheScottsMen]

But they forget that Abraham was long before Moses and the introduction of the "merit system" to evidence faith... which was a temporary requirement … which is now disannulled in this Christian dispensation.

How do you feel that repentance falls into the current dispensation? Do you understand scripture to mean that during the current age man may be regenerated and saved without evidence of his/her salvation?

 

[Tychicum]

How do you feel that repentance falls into the current dispensation? Do you understand scripture to mean that during the current age man may be regenerated and saved without evidence of his/her salvation?

Reptentance (apart from the repentant act of belief) has no part in "Salvation" ... but a large part to play in "relationship".

We injure our relationship ... our "walk" ... and distance God from us when we sin and are not "repentant" (which means we don't turn from that sin).

Confession (which has nothing what so ever to do with "repentance") is another action which has nothing to do with "Salvation".

A lack of ongoing "repentance" or "confession" does not cause one to have their name erased from the Lamb's Book of Life (as if it had been written in pencil). It does not cause the "seal of the Holy Spirit" to fall to the ground (as if made with common wax). But it does rob one of the blessing of the joy of the Lord ...

If you haven't had a chance to read it yet ... you owe it to yourself to read about The Terms of Salvation


†

 

[Tychicum]

Do you understand scripture to mean that during the current age man may be regenerated and saved without evidence of his/her salvation?

If by "evidence" you mean "fruit" ...?

Sadly some fruit does take quite a long time to develop doesn't it. In some you may never witness this fruit ... unless you lived with them 24x7 ...

And if you witness "fruit" .. it is still no evidence (apparent to an outsider) of Salvation either ... as there are many who are unregenerate who yield similar ... even better fruit.

There is much which is "counterfeit" out there. Wolves ...

 

[timlamb]

Reptentance (apart from the repentant act of belief) has no part in "Salvation" ... but a large part to play in "relationship".

We injure our relationship ... our "walk" ... and distance God from us when we sin and are not "repentant" (which means we don't turn from that sin).

Confession (which has nothing what so ever to do with "repentance") is another action which has nothing to do with "Salvation".

"GODLY SORROW BRINGS REPENTANCE THAT LEADS TO SALVATION" 2 Cor. 7:10

A lack of ongoing "repentance" or "confession" does not cause one to have their name erased from the Lamb's Book of Life (as if it had been written in pencil). It does not cause the "seal of the Holy Spirit" to fall to the ground (as if made with common wax). But it does rob one of the blessing of the joy of the Lord ...

Agreed

 

[Tychicum]

"GODLY SORROW BRINGS REPENTANCE THAT LEADS TO SALVATION" 2 Cor. 7:10

Yes. That is what it means to believe Tim.

 

[timlamb]

Reptentance (apart from the repentant act of belief) has no part in "Salvation" ... but a large part to play in "relationship".

We injure our relationship ... our "walk" ... and distance God from us when we sin and are not "repentant" (which means we don't turn from that sin).

Confession (which has nothing what so ever to do with "repentance") is another action which has nothing to do with "Salvation".

A lack of ongoing "repentance" or "confession" does not cause one to have their name erased from the Lamb's Book of Life (as if it had been written in pencil). It does not cause the "seal of the Holy Spirit" to fall to the ground (as if made with common wax). But it does rob one of the blessing of the joy of the Lord ...

If you haven't had a chance to read it yet ... you owe it to yourself to read about The Terms of Salvation

†

I think Jesus lays them out pretty well in the Gospels.

 

[Tychicum]

I think Jesus lays them out pretty well in the Gospels.

In the Synoptics the terms laid out were "Kingdom Law". The terms are and will be necessary to the Kingdom ... the 1,000 year reign of the King on Earth.

It is clearly ... "do and become accepted". It is Conditional.

The Book of John was written including Pauline doctrine and is ... strictly speaking ... a transitional book. It basically starts in the first 10 verses explaining Israel's rejection of their King ...

The message of the Dispensation of the Grace of God which was revealed to Paul differs.

It is be accepted ... and do. Unconditional upon the "do".

But you are ignoring the fact tim that Jesus wrote the Pauline epistles every bit as much as He wrote the Synoptics.

That is if you accept that the whole Bible is inspired by God and is God's very Word.


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[timlamb]

In the Synoptics the terms laid out were "Kingdom Law". The terms are and will be necessary to the Kingdom ... the 1,000 year reign of the King on Earth.

It is clearly ... "do and become accepted". It is Conditional.

The Book of John was written including Pauline doctrine and is ... strictly speaking ... a transitional book. It basically starts in the first 10 verses explaining Israel's rejection of their King ...

The message of the Dispensation of the Grace of God which was revealed to Paul differs.

It is be accepted ... and do. Unconditional upon the "do".

But you are ignoring the fact tim that Jesus wrote the Pauline epistles every bit as much as He wrote the Synoptics.

That is if you accept that the whole Bible is inspired by God and is God's very Word.


.

Would you quit defending Paul to me, I have never disputed Pauls divine writing, as you dispute the word of Jesus and the apostles.

Jesus did not put conditions on salvation, He put the standard on Christian, Godly, living. If we could meet those conditions, salvation was assured, but since we cannot, salvation had to come from the cross.

Ask, Knock, aim for the narrow gate, Try to live righteously.

"I have not come to abolish them (the Prophets and the Law) but to fulfill them." He puts a high standard, but since there is no minimum, (that depends on the heart) he only says, you must at least be more righteous than the pharisees, who taught one thing and lived another.

He summs up salvation in talking to nicodimous(sp) and that is recorded in John chapter 3. be born again in faith, believe on Him and not perish.

 

[Tychicum]

Jesus did not put conditions on salvation ...

I disagree.

Jesus offer of entry into the Kingdom was rife with conditions.

You are confounding the message of Grace with both the Law of Moses and the Law of the Kingdom.

You are reading back into Jesus earthly message to Israel ... information which was not contained in His message.

Information which He did not provide until much later.

You even make it sound as if the "Christian church" was established before the cross. I don't think there are many who believe that ...


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[timlamb]

I disagree.

Jesus offer of entry into the Kingdom was rife with conditions.

You are confounding the message of Grace with both the Law of Moses and the Law of the Kingdom.

You are reading back into Jesus earthly message to Israel ... information which was not contained in His message.

Information which He did not provide until much later.

You even make it sound as if the "Christian church" was established before the cross. I don't think there are many who believe that ...


.

Of course the Christian church is founded on Christ and Him crucified. Are you saying anything can trump grace? Even under the Law, salvation was by grace. Jesus pointed out very well we could not keep the law in our hearts, so we needed for giveness, which would only come through Him.

You are confusing rules for living with the way of salvation.

The Laws God established for righteous living were not abolished, but the rules for society established by moses are left behind. Things like stoning.

But grace superceeds them all, it always has. And His flock is one, under one sheperd.

 

[Tychicum]

Of course the Christian church is founded on Christ and Him crucified. Are you saying anything can trump grace? Even under the Law, salvation was by grace.

The root of it is you can't differentiate between Law and Grace.

 

[timlamb]

The root of it is you can't differentiate between Law and Grace.

EXPLAINATION PLEASE!!

 

[eph3Nine]

EXPLAINATION PLEASE!!

The fact that you need an explanation is evidence that more study might be in order. I say this to encourage you to do so...not to insult you. Contrary to popular opinion, we dispensationalists actually DESIRE for people to UNDERSTAND and ENJOY the REVEALED will of God as found in the scriptures rightly divided.

 

[timlamb]

The fact that you need an explanation is evidence that more study might be in order. I say this to encourage you to do so...not to insult you. Contrary to popular opinion, we dispensationalists actually DESIRE for people to UNDERSTAND and ENJOY the REVEALED will of God as found in the scriptures rightly divided.

I don't read a scripture divided.

Tychicum, if you won't back up your statements, please keep them in your head.

 

[eph3Nine]

Tychie doesnt need to keep his biblically based comments to himself. The difference between law and grace is a BASIC one that ALL believers should be well acquainted with. Why should he have to explain something that is so fundamental to the Christians belief system? The fact that YOU dont know anything about it speaks NOT well of YOU, not badly of someone else. So keep your nasty comments to yourself and stop harrassing folks here. You are very tiresome with your rude and uninformed comments about something you obviously know NOTHING about.

Sigh....where IS that ignore feature?