Lies

[liveforjesus]

Is it ok to lie if it does no harm?

 

[Philosoft]

How would you ever possibly know if something you said or did was a cause of harm?

 

[pudmuddle]

Is it ok to lie if it does no harm?

No.

 

[ZaraDurden]

What if, say...

You and your wife are about to attend some special event... and your wife comes home from the hairdressers and her hair is just butchered! I mean, its really terrible looking, and you know everyone will think so, and she even may think so... so she askes you with fear in her voice, "So, what do you think of my hair?"

I think it is ok to lie in this situation.

 

[Magisterium]

What if, say...

You and your wife are about to attend some special event... and your wife comes home from the hairdressers and her hair is just butchered! I mean, its really terrible looking, and you know everyone will think so, and she even may think so... so she askes you with fear in her voice, "So, what do you think of my hair?"

I think it is ok to lie in this situation.

I'd have to say it'd certainly be the easier choice! However, beauty is completely subjective and it would be ok to maybe say "well, I'm gonna need some time to get used to it...".

As for the original question about lies, to communicate an untruth, however miniscule, is in itself wrong. However, the level of harm it does, determines the seriousness of the sin. Additionally, witholding information in order that good may come is NOT the same as speaking an untruth so that good may come. An objectively sinful act cannot be made good by intent or circumstance.

 

[tcampen]

I think we're learning who's married and who is not.

 

[Blindfaith]

LOL!

The problem with lying is you tell one lie, you have to come up with another to cover up the first lie, so on and so forth.

If my hair looked that bad, I'd want my husband to tell me, rather than walk around looking like Marge Simspon.

 

[My Higher Self]

If my hair looked that bad, I'd want my husband to tell me, rather than walk around looking like Marge Simspon.

This is a good point, however, it really depends on your wifes reactions to a completely truthful answer!! It could be dangerous. Haha!!

 

[TScott]

What if, say...

You and your wife are about to attend some special event... and your wife comes home from the hairdressers and her hair is just butchered! I mean, its really terrible looking, and you know everyone will think so, and she even may think so... so she askes you with fear in her voice, "So, what do you think of my hair?"

I think it is ok to lie in this situation.

This reminds me of a story about Miz' Lillian Carter, the former president"s mother. A news lady, I think it was Barbara Walters, came to Miz' Lillian's home in Plains Georgia to do an interview. While Miz' Lillian was showing her around the news lady asked about a recent statement she made where she said that Jimmy never lied when he was a boy. Miz' Lillian said that he may have told some "little white lies."

"Aha!" said the news lady, "so he did tell lies!"

"Well not real lies, just 'little white lies,'" Miz' Lillian insisted.

"A lie is a lie, is it not?" asked the news lady, "what do you consider a 'little white lie.' Give me an example of a 'little white lie.'"

"Well, Miz' Lillian said, "you know when you first got here tonite, and I told you how nice it was to see you?"

 

[-Jae-]

My answer would be yes. For example I lie to my parents about being an atheist. They still think im a Christian , even though that ship sailed quite some time ago.

The truth would hurt them really , really badly , especially my mom , who is is very heavy christian.
So I just let them think im a christian , because it seems to make them really happy.

 

[Magisterium]

My answer would be yes. For example I lie to my parents about being an atheist. They still think im a Christian , even though that ship sailed quite some time ago.

The truth would hurt them really , really badly , especially my mom , who is is very heavy christian.
So I just let them think im a christian , because it seems to make them really happy.

While what you say may be true, If they knew the truth, they might begin to pray for your conversion. Their initial heartbereak and subsequent prayer could result in your eyes being opened by the Holy Spirit and you coming into the full revelation of truth.

I know you don't believe it to be truth, but humor me if you will...

 

[-Jae-]

While what you say may be true, If they knew the truth, they might begin to pray for your conversion. Their initial heartbereak and subsequent prayer could result in your eyes being opened by the Holy Spirit and you coming into the full revelation of truth.

I know you don't believe it to be truth, but humor me if you will...

Well , or my mother gets totally crushed by the news ( trust me she will) and they will kick me out of the house before I "infect" the other kids (again , trust me on this one).
So here the lie is beneficial to both parties and therefor in my eyes , totally exceptable.

Oh , and they are already praying for me every day , since they are not particulairy happy about me not going to biblestudy anymore

 

[Blindfaith]

Another question then would be does lying = deception? Which is worse or are they both equally bad?

-Jae-, be careful about deceiving anyone, especially your parents. I've tried it before, and it ended up coming back to bite me in the behind. My teenage daughter tried deception last year, and it didn't work for her either.

 

[revolutio]

A question from a nontheist: If you are not absolutely sure of something truth, would it be a sin to pass it off as such?

 

[-Jae-]

Another question then would be does lying = deception? Which is worse or are they both equally bad?

-Jae-, be careful about deceiving anyone, especially your parents. I've tried it before, and it ended up coming back to bite me in the behind. My teenage daughter tried deception last year, and it didn't work for her either.

Dont worry. Living as an atheist in a fundie town makes one a very skilled lier. I can probably keep up the show for many years to come

 

[liveforjesus]

[Love does no harm. Therefore, love is the fulfillment of the law.]

This seems to imply that if is not harmful to anyone, it is ok, and that your will to not harm anyone comes from love.

 

[tcampen]

LOL!

The problem with lying is you tell one lie, you have to come up with another to cover up the first lie, so on and so forth.

If my hair looked that bad, I'd want my husband to tell me, rather than walk around looking like Marge Simspon.

Usually such circumstances aren't nearly so cut and dry. If my wife asks me "have I gained weight?" usually the honest answer is "I can't tell." To say "No, you haven't" would be less truthful, but not necessarily a lie.

This is really what normally happens...when the real answer is either unknown or indifferent, a stance in favor of boosting another's self esteem is taken. If analyzed to its extreme, then the statement would be considered a lie, albeit a "white lie."

So let's get more complicated...Suppose you were in 1939 occupied Europe, and you knew where some Jews were hiding from the Nazis. The Nazis ask you if there are any Jews hiding.

Do you:
A.) Tell the Nazis exactly where the Jews are Hiding;
B.) Lie and tell them you aren't aware of any hiding Jews;
C.) Tell them you know where the Jews are hiding, but refuse to tell them; or
D.) Refuse to say anything in response?

Why is answer "B" wrong if the ones asking are going to do harm to innocent people if the question is answered honestly? Is "D" the only way to avoid doing the wrong thing?

Interesting dilemma.

 

[Blindfaith]

Geez tcampen - could anything be so polar opposite to a bad hair day compared to a Nazi death camp?

I'd give the answer 'B', no questions asked. If it's wrong, I'll answer to God when I'm on my face before Him, but I sure would hope that it saved a few people in the process. I don't really think God would be too mad at me when it means saving a life.

But I do see what you're saying in regards to the wifely question of 'have I gained weight'. I'd have to have my hubby sleep in the doghouse if he told me "yes".

 

[tcampen]

Exactly!

Gee, this can get really complicated, but one really must ask whether the wife is looking for an honest answer. Isn't my wife really asking me to "Please say I look nice"? I really don't think it is a question that requests an honest answer.

But if I show up for work feeling under the weather, and someone in the elevator asks how I'm doing, am I lying if I simply reply "fine," when in fact I'm not. Or am I obligated to say "I feel like a pile of ***"?

I think there are a lot of cultural implications involved here. The important question is this....is the untruth (lie) intended to help or hurt someone, and what will be the likely result?

 

[Blindfaith]

You bring up an EXCELLENT point tcampen!!

How many times a day do we hear from people, "how are you doing"? And we give the same standard answer of, "I'm fine", even when we're not?

Do you know what I say to them? I say, "do you really want to know"? That way, the responsibility is placed back on them, and they have to figure out in a second or two if their question is sincere or not. I don't do this all of the time, because sometimes it's easier to just say "I'm fine, blah blah blah"...........but other times, it's good to make people take a step back and contemplate whether or not they're being sincere in their questions or not.

But that's a far cry from the comparison between a bad-hair Marge Simpson day vs a Nazi deathcamp .

If my husband told me I looked horrible, I'd probably feel bad, no doubt. But after a few minutes of steaming I'd be grateful that it was the person I loved the most who told me and not some stranger.