Libya's assembly votes for Sharia law

[Zoness]

Libya assembly votes for Sharia law - Africa - Al Jazeera English

Support the revolution, they said
Progressive democracy will come, they said

 

[smaneck]

Libya assembly votes for Sharia law - Africa - Al Jazeera English

Most constitutions in the Islamic world say that. What it means in practice, if anything, differs widely.

 

[Zoness]

Most constitutions in the Islamic world say that. What it means in practice, if anything, differs widely.

Only time will tell. I restrain my optimism of positive outcomes.

 

[Rationalt]

Nothing surprising for those who know what Islamic democracy entails.

 

[smaneck]

Nothing surprising for those who know what Islamic democracy entails.

I doubt very much if you do because it is a rather complicated subject.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Sharia is quite a bit different from what the Media calls sharia.

For the most part what people think is Sharia is either, Wahhabi, Vigilante Law, Jafa'ari or a Dictatorship.

While several nations use what they call sharia Criminal laws, they are Sharia in name only and I doubt if any 2 Nations call the same things Sharia.

But is is a bit of a Moot point as it has been centuries since any Nation used Sharia Criminal law, although many nations do use Sharia civil law. Which is very similar to Judaic civil Law. Except applies to Muslims only and an Islamic counsel is used as a Judge, instead of a Rabbi.

Most Muslims do believe that Non-Muslims are not eligible to use Sharia law.

The only way to understand Sharia, both Criminal and Civil is to have a full understanding of the 4 Madhabs. To be a Sharia Attorney or Judge requires a Ph.D in Islamic Jurisprudence.

 

[football5680]

Gaddafi was an open enemy so it doesn't really matter. It's not like we removed some neutral guy and this is what we got.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Gaddafi was an open enemy so it doesn't really matter. It's not like we removed some neutral guy and this is what we got.

I suspect the people of Lybia want Sharia in an effort to avoid another Qaddafi.

Hopefully they will get a legitimate Legal system in which the Sharia judges actually are trained in Islamic Jurisprudence and do adhere to
a Madhab.

However, if they do implement sharia I suspect it will be for Civil law only as very few crimes are punishable under Sharia. Only the 5 Hadd crimes. Actually 2 Madhabs recognize 5 Hadd Crimes and the other 2 recognize 4 Hadd crimes.

The Sharia the people of Libya would most likely vote for would be Maliki as the majority of the people of Libya follow the Maliki Madhab of Sharia,

Brief outline of Maliki can be found HERE

The Maliki is quite liberal although not as liberal as the Hanafi. I am not certain but I do believe the Maliki like the Hanafi are pretty much anti death penalty.

 

[smaneck]

Sharia is quite a bit different from what the Media calls sharia.

For the most part what people think is Sharia is either, Wahhabi, Vigilante Law, Jafa'ari or a Dictatorship.

While several nations use what they call sharia Criminal laws, they are Sharia in name only and I doubt if any 2 Nations call the same things Sharia.

But is is a bit of a Moot point as it has been centuries since any Nation used Sharia Criminal law, although many nations do use Sharia civil law. Which is very similar to Judaic civil Law. Except applies to Muslims only and an Islamic counsel is used as a Judge, instead of a Rabbi.

I'm guessing that one of the ways they may wish to apply Shariah law here is in the banking institutions.

 

[WoodrowX2]

I'm guessing that one of the ways they may wish to apply Shariah law here is in the banking institutions.

That will be quite certain. La Riba Banking is a necessity if a Muslim is to make any type of financed purchases. It is the fastest way for the general populace to expand their standard of living. As Muslims are forbidden to charge interest or pay interest Banks in an Islamic Nation must be interest free.

Some other important areas of Sharia would be adoption and inheritance laws.

Sharia compliant Family law would be another area many Muslims desire.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Most Muslims do believe that Non-Muslims are not eligible to use Sharia law.

What do you mean by "use?"

Use how?

Peace,

Bruce

 

[smaneck]

Sharia compliant Family law would be another area many Muslims desire.

Yeah, but that would likely have a negative impact on women's rights.

 

[WoodrowX2]

What do you mean by "use?"

Use how?

Peace,

Bruce

They can not use it in the court system to resolve disputes between non-Muslims.

Sharia laws do not apply to non-Muslims and secular law has to be used in all cases involvint non-Muslims.

 

[smaneck]

They can not use it in the court system to resolve disputes between non-Muslims.

Sharia laws do not apply to non-Muslims and secular law has to be used in all cases involvint non-Muslims.

It used to be non-Muslims would have their own religious courts.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Yeah, but that would likely have a negative impact on women's rights.

Not if a Madhab is actually followed.

In spite of what some Nations do. Under Sharia No one has the right to force a woman to dress in a particular Manner, Keep women from getting an education or prevent them from getting a job. As for not being allowed to Drive. The sunnah does speak of women riding Horses, which has set the precedent it is not prohibited for women to drive.

The anti-feminine laws of some nations are forbidden under all 4 Madhabs.

 

[smaneck]

Not if a Madhab is actually followed.

In spite of what some Nations do. Under Sharia No one has the right to force a woman to dress in a particular Manner, Keep women from getting an education or prevent them from getting a job. As for not being allowed to Drive. The sunnah does speak of women riding Horses, which has set the precedent it is not prohibited for women to drive.

The anti-feminine laws of some nations are forbidden under all 4 Madhabs.

I had in mind things like women only getting four months of alimony prior to a divorce or men being able to take multiple wives. There is also the problem of a woman's witness not being equal to a man's. There are certain areas where the shariah favors women. For instance, while women may work their earnings remain their own even if they are married. A woman has a right to receive support from her husband's earnings, but a husband has no right to any portion of his wife's earnings.

Also, the shariah makes honor killings difficult to prosecute. This is an unintended consequence of murder being considered a qisas crime where the family of the victim can forgive the perpetrator. When the family of the perpetrator and the the family of victim are the same, how do punish murderer?

 

[WoodrowX2]

I had in mind things like women only getting four months of alimony prior to a divorce or men being able to take multiple wives. There is also the problem of a woman's witness not being equal to a man's. There are certain areas where the shariah favors women. For instance, while women may work their earnings remain their own even if they are married. A woman has a right to receive support from her husband's earnings, but a husband has no right to any portion of his wife's earnings.

Also, the shariah makes honor killings difficult to prosecute. This is an unintended consequence of murder being considered a qisas crime where the family of the victim can forgive the perpetrator. When the family of the perpetrator and the the family of victim are the same, how do punish murderer?

Those are valid points and something the Judicial system of a Sharia state has to address. One problem is like all courts even Sharia courts have Human Judges and Human attorneys

There is one area, about woman's money often over looked, that offsets the perceived unfairness of the inheritance and the alimony laws.

That is the dower.

If a woman is wise she will write into the Nikkah that all of a man's possessions and future income is her dower. Than in the event of a divorce or death all of the Man's property immediately becomes the woman's before the application of any alimony or inheritance. This awards all of the husbands wealth to the wife, making the inheritance and alimony laws inapplicable.

With murder being a qisas crime it does make it difficult. as any punishment is strictly the responsibility of the family of the deceased.

However if you have a capable Sharia Judge this can be offset as for an act of murder to take place it is very probable a Hadud crime was also committed and that would become the responsibility of the court.

 

[smaneck]

Those are valid points and something the Judicial system of a Sharia state has to address. One problem is like all courts even Sharia courts have Human Judges and Human attorneys

More to the point, these 'humans' with few exceptions are all males. But here is one exception on the West Bank:

New female judge transforms Islamic court - CSMonitor.com

That is the dower.

If a woman is wise she will write into the Nikkah that all of a man's possessions and future income is her dower.

LOL. I've never seen it go that far but I do know that it is not uncommon for women to demand a fairly large bride price and then never actually collect it but if he divorces her, this is what she gets to take out of the marriage.
Since pre-nups or nikkahs are the standard in the Islamic world (marriage being a contract) she can also insure that her husband cannot take a second wife this way. She can even demand custody of the children in case of divorce (which ordinarily goes to the male.)

With murder being a qisas crime it does make it difficult. as any punishment is strictly the responsibility of the family of the deceased.

Its important for people to understand this because they are often under the false impression that honor killings are okay in Islam. They most certainly are not, but a law intended to prevent revenge wars between families and tribes instead allows family members to kill one another with near impunity.

 

[WoodrowX2]

More to the point, these 'humans' with few exceptions are all males. But here is one exception on the West Bank:

New female judge transforms Islamic court - CSMonitor.com

While there are very few Schools of Islamic Jurisprudence. It does seem women are beginning to pursue careers in Law.

I'm just basing that on Muslimahs I been seeing on Islamic Forums.

LOL. I've never seen it go that far but I do know that it is not uncommon for women to demand a fairly large bride price and then never actually collect it but if he divorces her, this is what she gets to take out of the marriage.
Since pre-nups or nikkahs are the standard in the Islamic world (marriage being a contract) she can also insure that her husband cannot take a second wife this way. She can even demand custody of the children in case of divorce (which ordinarily goes to the male.)

Usually they word it as an Exorbitant amount, such as 100 million dollars which for all practical purposes they will get every thing the Husband owns in the event of Divorce or Death.

Its important for people to understand this because they are often under the false impression that honor killings are okay in Islam. They most certainly are not, but a law intended to prevent revenge wars between families and tribes instead allows family members to kill one another with near impunity.

At the time the Madhabs were being developed it was not conceivable that a Muslim would ever kill a family member. It was probably felt that the religious prohibition against Murder was sufficient to curtail a Muslim from ever harming a Family member.

Some Scholars of Islamic Jurisprudence seem to indicate that it is possible to modify the Haddud laws and add Murder as a Haddud Crime. Which would make it possible for the court to punish a person for Murder. But it can take many more years before a method of doing so is agreed upon. If an agreement can even be found.

Some Islamic Nations are bypassing this "Loophole" by using Secular law for Criminal Laws.