Liberal Christians

BondiHarry · Apr 11, 2011

ROMANS 8 28 said:
It appears that many of you are confusing Politics with Faith; "Conservative" and "Liberal" are political labels, not religious faith.

Our 'politics' will reflect our 'faith' just as our deeds and the things we say reflect our faith.

Also I will point out that what determines "who" is a Christian is a confession and Faith in Jesus, not a "political stand" on various issues of the law, character or behavior, as each of us [regardless of "label"] has our own sins to overcome and we ALL have them.

Really? A great many people confess Jesus and profess they have faith in Him yet Matthew 7 clearly shows that many such people will be denied by Jesus and told to depart from Him. Why? They were workers of iniquity so obviously obedience to Jesus is a telling factor in determining who is a true Christian. "Why call ye me Lord, Lord and do not the things which I say" (Luke 6:46)

Additionally I will remind you that a sin is a sin is a sin, and if you commit "the smallest" [sin] you are guilty of them all. So while a "Liberal" may endorse the legalization of drugs, promote abortion or agree with "same sex marriage"; a Conservative may cheat on their taxes, cheat on their wife or be a drunk.

We are under new testament grace and not the old testament law but it behooves all professing Christians to surrender ALL their sins and not pride themselves that just because they don't engage is certain obvious sins they let their guard down against other sins that will just as surely take them down to hell.

All sinners folks, and while it is true that "Conservatives" [like me] tend to not commit many of "the bigger sins" which are more "public" and considered more "sinful" [by man], Liberals "appear" to do the opposite.

"Ye shall know them by their fruits." (Matthew 7:16)

"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh" (Luke 6:45)

Although what seems like outward virtue can mask private corruption, corruption in public is a pretty good indicator of corruption in private ... IMO.

GOD does not see things as we do and ALL of us, regardless of our "label" are sinners and unworthy to judge the "other side". Sure, we [Conservatives] should fight to defend that which is Holy and give ourselves to the serving of the cause of Christ, but while we may feel "superior", better or "more Christian" than "Liberals" we should not be so arrogant to actually believe that we are the only "true Christians", as we are not.

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them]." (Ephesians 5:11)

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness. (1 Timothy 3:16)

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.. (2 Timothy 2:15)

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5)

True Christians will do as the Lord calls for us to do. False Christians will claim the mantle of Christ and do the things which God hates. Jesus is neither 'liberal' or 'conservative', He is HOLY but He makes fairly clear in the Bible what holiness looks like so we can actually compare what we do look like with what we should look like.

The Children of Disobedience / The Children of the Devil

I will not call the children of the devil my brothers and sisters no matter how vociferously they claim they know and love Jesus and they are only doing His work but in a different way.

WalksWithChrist · Apr 11, 2011

BondiHarry said:
I will not call the children of the devil my brothers and sisters no matter how vociferously they claim they know and love Jesus and they are only doing His work but in a different way.

You have absolutely no authority to make this statement.

None whatsoever.

sealacamp · Apr 11, 2011

WalksWithChrist said:
You have absolutely no authority to make this statement.

None whatsoever.

His assessment may be harsh yet it is not inaccurate. He has this authority as a follower of Christ. And those that adhere to this:

They believe the Bible to be a valuable resource, but not free from error.

do not view homosexuality or sexual reassignment as sin or unnatural.

or any other such nonsense that negates Gods word, are not in a position to deny his assessment. Indeed these are subversive statements to God, His authority, and His word. Since these statements indicate a drifting away from God and His truth then who do you suppose is being followed if it is not Christ?

BTW there is no different way to do the Lords work. Have you not read that Christs body functioned "all in one accord"?

Sealacamp

BondiHarry · Apr 11, 2011

WalksWithChrist said:
You have absolutely no authority to make this statement.

None whatsoever.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (Isaiah 5:20)

We cannot serve two masters and the reality is we will either serve Jesus or we will serve Satan. I pray for the lost and particularly those lost who think they know Jesus yet do the work of the devil (I myself was a religionist on my way to hell when Jesus entered my life ... ten years after I thought I had been saved). The lost who know they don't know Jesus are one thing but there are many lost who think they do know Jesus (one of Satan's most diabolical schemes is convincing lost men they are saved), who believe there is such a thing as a 'carnal Christian', who believe the compassion for the poor and those in need that Jesus taught justifies the welfare state (thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not steal, he who does not work neither shall he eat), who believe Jesus' love, compassion and forgiveness must mean He loves homosexuals just as they are and that they really can engage in the very thing God has called an abomination and still be saved and so forth.

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth." (Revelation 3:16)

Lukewarm Christians

Did I hit a sensitive spot with you WalksWithChrist?

WalksWithChrist · Apr 11, 2011

sealacamp said:
His assessment may be harsh yet it is not inaccurate. He has this authority as a follower of Christ. And those that adhere to this:

or any other such nonsense that negates Gods word, are not in a position to deny his assessment. Indeed these are subversive statements to God, His authority, and His word. Since these statements indicate a drifting away from God and His truth then who do you suppose is being followed if it is not Christ?

BTW there is no different way to do the Lords work. Have you not read that Christs body functioned "all in one accord"?

Sealacamp

Yes, I have read these things.

And may have come to a different conclusion. Namely that we should indeed be united, not by our differences, but by what we have in common. Namely our faith in our Lord Jesus.

WalksWithChrist · Apr 11, 2011

BondiHarry said:
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (Isaiah 5:20)

We cannot serve two masters and the reality is we will either serve Jesus or we will serve Satan. I pray for the lost and particularly those lost who think they know Jesus yet do the work of the devil (I myself was a religionist on my way to hell when Jesus entered my life ... ten years after I thought I had been saved). The lost who know they don't know Jesus are one thing but there are many lost who think they do know Jesus (one of Satan's most diabolical schemes is convincing lost men they are saved), who believe there is such a thing as a 'carnal Christian', who believe the compassion for the poor and those in need that Jesus taught justifies the welfare state (thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not steal, he who does not work neither shall he eat), who believe Jesus' love, compassion and forgiveness must mean He loves homosexuals just as they are and that they really can engage in the very thing God has called an abomination and still be saved and so forth.

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth." (Revelation 3:16)

Lukewarm Christians

Did I hit a sensitive spot with you WalksWithChrist?

God took no offense and neither did I.

Simply pointing out your judgement is, fortunately, not God's judgement.
And neither is mine while we're on the subject. That's why I don't make public judgements.

Gentlemantech48 · Apr 11, 2011

<H4>Just as the church has the power to judge a person in their flock, we as individual Christians have the power to judge an individual's sin according to God's Word.</H4>1 Corinthians 6
1 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lords people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lords people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

ROMANS 8 28 · Apr 11, 2011

"BONDIHARRY",

Your comments and judgement sound very harsh and seem [to me] to be tainted with a generous portion of "hate" and anger.

I choose to not be so "judgmental" and practice mercy and fairness as a base for my "examinations" of those who's views I disagree with.

I certainly disagree with your "heavy handed" application of what smacks of "angry Christianity", judgement and a lower level of Christian love than I believe JESUS would apply to such "issues".

It is easy to stand on a pedestal, quote scripture and pass severe judgement on others and [basically] imply that they belong in HELL, but Christians are called to have mercy on others; your statements are very damning, lack understanding and make you sound like you [think you] are "perfect" [and] know who and who should not be [or are not] Christians.

This unloving and hypocritical [sounding] judgement is not what I believe we are called to practice and I find it an unsettling use of The Word and the power of The Lord as it leaves no room for love, mercy and it does not even address the reality of that which actually is occurring with and in all Christians.

Christians [all of them] are far from perfect or ever even coming close to measuring up to that [holiness] which we're called to; THAT'S why we need JESUS and I suggest you re-examine your "observations of EVIL" and [perhaps] realize that ALL of us are deserving of HELL; Conservatives and Liberals.

sealacamp · Apr 11, 2011

I find it an unsettling use of The Word and the power of The Lord as it leaves no room for love, mercy and it does not even address the reality of that which actually is occurring with and in all Christians.

Actually you are mistaken. It is very loving to see your brother err and try to point them in the right direction and when they argue with you for them to be chastised severely in order to bring them back into the light. When people say this:

do not view homosexuality or sexual reassignment as sin or unnatural.

They believe the Bible to be a valuable resource, but not free from error.

they need to be chastised because they are wandering away from the truth and therefore are wandering away from life itself, such is the nature of truth (Christ Himself). Although the words may have been harsh they were not inaccurate and for some may well be necessary.

Sealacamp

Gentlemantech48 · Apr 11, 2011

ROMANS 8 28 said:
"BONDIHARRY",

Your comments and judgement sound very harsh and seem [to me] to be tainted with a generous portion of "hate" and anger.

I choose to not be so "judgmental" and practice mercy and fairness as a base for my "examinations" of those who's views I disagree with.

I certainly disagree with your "heavy handed" application of what smacks of "angry Christianity", judgement and a lower level of Christian love than I believe JESUS would apply to such "issues".

It is easy to stand on a pedestal, quote scripture and pass severe judgement on others and [basically] imply that they belong in HELL, but Christians are called to have mercy on others; your statements are very damning, lack understanding and make you sound like you [think you] are "perfect" [and] know who and who should not be [or are not] Christians.

This unloving and hypocritical [sounding] judgement is not what I believe we are called to practice and I find it an unsettling use of The Word and the power of The Lord as it leaves no room for love, mercy and it does not even address the reality of that which actually is occurring with and in all Christians.

Christians [all of them] are far from perfect or ever even coming close to measuring up to that [holiness] which we're called to; THAT'S why we need JESUS and I suggest you re-examine your "observations of EVIL" and [perhaps] realize that ALL of us are deserving of HELL; Conservatives and Liberals.

I'm sorry that God's Word has upset you. As Sealcamp says, our judgement of sin is not to be harsh but actually loving in that it might put a light on your error. God shows us what is sin and we simply reveal that to our brother or sister who is in sin. The timing of how and when we do that is a whole other matter. Usually we just need to love the person first and then tell them of their sin when the time is right. I would hope that a brother or sister in Christ would do the same for me!

BondiHarry · Apr 11, 2011

ROMANS 8 28 said:
"BONDIHARRY",

Your comments and judgement sound very harsh and seem [to me] to be tainted with a generous portion of "hate" and anger.

I choose to not be so "judgmental" and practice mercy and fairness as a base for my "examinations" of those who's views I disagree with.

I certainly disagree with your "heavy handed" application of what smacks of "angry Christianity", judgement and a lower level of Christian love than I believe JESUS would apply to such "issues".

It is easy to stand on a pedestal, quote scripture and pass severe judgement on others and [basically] imply that they belong in HELL, but Christians are called to have mercy on others; your statements are very damning, lack understanding and make you sound like you [think you] are "perfect" [and] know who and who should not be [or are not] Christians.

This unloving and hypocritical [sounding] judgement is not what I believe we are called to practice and I find it an unsettling use of The Word and the power of The Lord as it leaves no room for love, mercy and it does not even address the reality of that which actually is occurring with and in all Christians.

Christians [all of them] are far from perfect or ever even coming close to measuring up to that [holiness] which we're called to; THAT'S why we need JESUS and I suggest you re-examine your "observations of EVIL" and [perhaps] realize that ALL of us are deserving of HELL; Conservatives and Liberals.

"Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers! (Matthew 7:21-23)

Jesus says this of people who firmly believe He is their Lord and they are saved. Many professing Christians are going to wind up in hell because their own false sense of salvation is allowed to go unchecked and because of this belief that it is unseemly to judge another is promoted (we actually are commanded to judge, ourselves and, yes, even others). It may sound harsh to you Romans 8 28 but damnation is far harsher. Liberal Christians in their support of a woman's choice, encouragement of homosexual activity and the welfare state are causing immense harm and evil and they do this in the name of God. God is incredibly loving but He will not be mocked and it is IMO unloving to call someone a brother or sister in Christ when by their fruit it is clear they are His enemies and unless they come to a knowledge of the truth and repent, they will go to hell.

WalksWithChrist · Apr 11, 2011

BondiHarry said:
"Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers! (Matthew 7:21-23)

Jesus says this of people who firmly believe He is their Lord and they are saved. Many professing Christians are going to wind up in hell because their own false sense of salvation is allowed to go unchecked and because of this belief that it is unseemly to judge another is promoted (we actually are commanded to judge, ourselves and, yes, even others). It may sound harsh to you Romans 8 28 but damnation is far harsher. Liberal Christians in their support of a woman's choice, encouragement of homosexual activity and the welfare state are causing immense harm and evil and they do this in the name of God. God is incredibly loving but He will not be mocked and it is IMO unloving to call someone a brother or sister in Christ when by their fruit it is clear they are His enemies and unless they come to a knowledge of the truth and repent, they will go to hell.

What I still find wrong is painting a whole group, which don't uniformly adhere to the points you mention...far from it, and damning them to hell.

To do that is to further divide. And who profits from that division?
I'll let you fill in the blank on that one.

I must say I'm not posting any of this to convince anyone that I am replying directly to...although if I did that would be a nice surprise. It's to shed a bit of light for folks that I know are reading this and not posting. So feel free to not let me have it with both barrels. You will be wasting your keystrokes if your intent is to convince me.

The idea that an entire group of Christians is damned to hell is simply not true.

BondiHarry · Apr 11, 2011

WalksWithChrist said:
What I still find wrong is painting a whole group, which don't uniformly adhere to the points you mention...far from it, and damning them to hell.

To do that is to further divide. And who profits from that division?
I'll let you fill in the blank on that one.

I must say I'm not posting any of this to convince anyone that I am replying directly to...although if I did that would be a nice surprise. It's to shed a bit of light for folks that I know are reading this and not posting. So feel free to not let me have it with both barrels. You will be wasting your keystrokes if your intent is to convince me.

The idea that an entire group of Christians is damned to hell is simply not true.

Are you suggesting there are evil doers (or workers of iniquity if you prefer) who are going to heavern? Where is the scripture that shows that?

sealacamp · Apr 11, 2011

WalksWithChrist said:
What I still find wrong is painting a whole group, which don't uniformly adhere to the points you mention...far from it, and damning them to hell.

To do that is to further divide. And who profits from that division?
I'll let you fill in the blank on that one.

I must say I'm not posting any of this to convince anyone that I am replying directly to...although if I did that would be a nice surprise. It's to shed a bit of light for folks that I know are reading this and not posting. So feel free to not let me have it with both barrels. You will be wasting your keystrokes if your intent is to convince me.

The idea that an entire group of Christians is damned to hell is simply not true.

Maybe I am mistaken here but I don't think I saw where anyone condemned anyone to hell, that is Gods department anyway. I saw someone say that if our brothers and sisters that err are not brought back to the right path they may wind up in hell, that is not the same thing as condemning anyone to hell. If we condemn anyone then we are participating in the judgment that we are expressly told to avoid. However when we see fruit that is not from our Lord and these people are noted as brothers and sisters then it is important to shine a light of truth into the darkness. Now if everyone of a certain group do not adhere to the errant concepts of that group it makes me wonder why anyone would want to be affiliated with that group in the first place. My goal is to help others find the real truth, that is Jesus Christ, and be set free to be the people He made them to be and not be in bondage to anything. But anyone who claims to follow Christ and then says errant behavior is ok and good, which is essentially what one of the edicts has stated, then they are not following the Lord and are in danger. There is no condemnation in this rather it is an attempt at correction. If someone accepts it and finds the truth then praise the Lord, if they reject it then maybe someone else can help them.

Sealacamp

Celtic D · Apr 11, 2011

You are right on one point at least Sealacamp - it is God's department who will enter heaven and who won't so please stop trying to do His work for Him, He does not need your help.

Bondiharry, may I point you to Romans10:9-10, I'm sure I don't need to tell you what is contained in these verses. Any Christian who professes Christ as Lord WILL be saved and WILL go to heaven.

BondiHarry · Apr 11, 2011

Celtic D said:
Bondiharry, may I point you to Romans10:9-10, I'm sure I don't need to tell you what is contained in these verses. Any Christian who professes Christ as Lord WILL be saved and WILL go to heaven.

Yes and it is very true however there are many who believe they have faith and believe but think obedience is optional, indeed those of us who suggest that obedience is a telling sign of God actually being in one's life and conforming us into the likeness of Jesus are condemned as teaching salvation through the works of old testament law and are therefore false teachers (I have seen Paul Washer and John MacArthur so condemned). So I again refer to Matthew 7 and will throw in Hebrews 5:9.

Celtic D · Apr 11, 2011

I quite agree with these passages

What you (not just you BondiHarry) are doing however is judging my obedience to Christ, when in fact you have no idea, all you know about me is a few sentences on a discussion forum where as Christ knows the innermost secrets of my heart!

At the end of the day, it matters not what any mere human thinks of my faith, obedience or commitment, what matters is what Christ thinks

sealacamp · Apr 11, 2011

it is God's department who will enter heaven and who won't so please stop trying to do His work for Him, He does not need your help.

Stop trying to stop those that are doing Gods will.

Now do you believe this:

They believe the Bible to be a valuable resource, but not free from error.

do not view homosexuality or sexual reassignment as sin or unnatural

Now don't dance around it this time. A simple yes or no will do. Is this what you adhere to? Yes or no?

You keep crying out so much it makes me wonder. We have a saying in the south "Hit dog hollers loudest" Do you know what that means?

Sealacamp

Celtic D · Apr 11, 2011

God's will or Great Commission is that we go and make disciples of all nations (there is no sub clause which says convert those who do not agree with us but who none the less profess Christ as Saviour and Lord!)

I believe the Bible is error free but not 100% literal. I am also a Christian saved by GRACE - God's Rewards At Christ's Expense!

Celtic D · Apr 11, 2011

Some people on here are the worst example of Christian - conservative or otherwise that I have ever had the misfortune to meet. My closest Christian friend is more conservative in view than you lot thrown together, but recognises me as a fellow sister in Christ, and we can and do work amicably together to carry out Christ's Great Commission!

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