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Which view best matches your own?


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OldWiseGuy

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That's a pretty short list. Perhaps you believe that because we have made industries out of our many problems that they are no longer problems.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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So you couldnt support your statements. Big surprise.

Science (so far) finds a lifeless universe apart from earth. No surprise to me.
However the arrogance of science assumes that people reflexively believe even their wildest speculations, and sadly most do.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Scientific 'facts' are a pretty small part of mankind's overall beliefs. There are much bigger questions, such as if I am an average size man why can't I buy average size clothing? I am 1/4 inch taller than average but cannot buy pants that fit. My inseam size, 31 inches, is not available in most casual pants sizes. I would like to see the 'science' that went into the decision to eliminate the 'average' inseam length from casual and work pants, leaving us average guys with pants that are too short or too long. Don't even get me started on shirts.
 
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dad

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I don't see any that I believe. How about... 11. The universe is 6000 years old, as well as man and life on earth, which all were created by Jesus. Evolution did happen to the created kinds, and science is not equipped to know the extent of what was created or what evolved from the various kinds, because the fossil record only contains those creatures that could fossilize in the former nature, which may be something like 5% of the life that was alive.
 
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dad

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And if we then find evidence of it elsewhere, such as at Mars, your excuse will then change to.........what, exactly?
Stuff from earth escaped our gravity in the flood epoch and some ended up elsewhere in the solar system.
 
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VirOptimus

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Science (so far) finds a lifeless universe apart from earth. No surprise to me.
However the arrogance of science assumes that people reflexively believe even their wildest speculations, and sadly most do.

Still no support of your assertions.
 
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jayem

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The skeletal structure of hominids is ideal for bipedal man, and creating new flesh on old bones makes God very efficient.

What do mean by "ideal?" For the record, there is a drawback to having a spine suited for bipedalism. Humans have a much higher incidence of significant, symptomatic intervertebral disc problems than other mammals. Almost everyone will get degenerative disc disease with aging. It's why back pain is so common. And it's independent of lifestyle--it develops in people who aren't overweight, or haven't engaged in high impact occupations or sports. (Though obviously, being hard on your back makes it worse.) It appears to be a function of the unique mechanical forces that many years of upright posture place on the spinal column. From an evolutionary viewpoint, it's easy to understand. Lifelong bipedalism is a relatively new development, and there hasn't been enough time to work the bugs out. And also, it generally doesn't affect reproduction, so there's no natural selection pressure to eliminate weaker spines. But I'd think a truly intelligent designer would realize that a bipedal creature needs a spine that must withstand unusual stresses for 70-90 years or more.
 
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ianw16

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Stuff from earth escaped our gravity in the flood epoch and some ended up elsewhere in the solar system.

Which 'flood epoch' was this, and where is the evidence for it? How would having a flood cause 'stuff' to end up elsewhere in the solar system?
This might all make sense to you, but scientifically speaking, it is complete woo. Ergo, I shall ignore it.
 
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Astrophile

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So far the evidence and data shows a lifeless universe out there.

So far, but things may change; scientists are always making unexpected discoveries. Also, there are plenty of organic compounds (perhaps even pre-biotic compounds) in interstellar molecular clouds, and in meteorites and comets, so the origin of life from such compounds may not be impossible.
 
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Astrophile

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The natural state of the universe is the absence of life, therefore biological life on earth is supernatural, therefore ..................

How do you know that the natural state of the universe is the absence of life? Life exists on Earth; the chemical elements that living things are composed of (C, H, O, N, Na, Mg, P, S, Cl, K, Ca, Fe, Co, I, etc.) occur throughout the universe; and the physical and chemical processes that operate in living things can be reproduced in vitro in laboratories. There is no 'vital force' that distinguishes life from non-life, so why should the occurrence of life be supernatural?

Even if what you say is true, it doesn't exclude the existence of life on other planets in the solar system or in extra-solar planetary systems. God could have created life, by whatever means, elsewhere in the universe.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Most back pain is caused by fatigue or injury, not bad design. It is also a common side effect of many medications. Also most back pain is muscle related, not spinal. Being overweight, sedentary, and stressed out doesn't help either.

Worse yet doctors are unable to recommend proper rest for low back pain. Because it often gets worse after a day in bed they don't recommend bed rest as a remedy. However because persistent back ache is often the result of long term accumulated fatigue and/or mental/emotional stress complete rest is the remedy most needed as the entire body and mind are involved, not just the back. In this sense the back is the canary in the coal mine.

Blaming design for these problems is like getting drunk and driving into a tree then blaming the design of the car for the crash.
 
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GrowingSmaller

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People will sometimes argue that science is the philosophical rich man, creationism is the poor man.

Science has practical benefits. Faith has fewer visible pay offs, they'll say. And generalise to all cases, science rules.

But can you worship God and make money. Not if you make make money your absolute master. That leads to all kinds of awful consequences, like conveience abortions, dehumanising the poor, IQism etc.

"For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

IMO you need a balance, its possible to be faithful and have some respect for science, just not putting all your money into one basket (i.e. spread your bets between faith and science). Like a mixed cognitive economy with faith and science both* being respected. Social pluralism saves the goods of faith and science.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, *but with God all things are possible.”
 
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VirOptimus

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If you want to preach there are other parts of CF that are appropriate. This however is the science subforums.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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That we dont know.

But that is not what you assert.

My assertion is similar to that of science.

Science: There is no God (as far as we know).
OldWiseGuy: There is no life out there (as far as we know).
 
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VirOptimus

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My assertion is similar to that of science.

Science: There is no God (as far as we know).
OldWiseGuy: There is no life out there (as far as we know).

No that is wrong.

Science doesnt deal with god(s) at all.

Also, your assertion is still baseless.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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No that is wrong.

Science doesnt deal with god(s) at all.

Also, your assertion is still baseless.

My assertion is based on the fact that there is no evidence of life in the universe other than here on earth. The odds of life out there is not evidence of life out there.
 
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