Letting your spouse off easy...

[Ana the Ist]

The question I'm interested in here is, "Is it possible to let your spouse off too easily?" I understand that may sound contradictory or even too obvious to some, so I'll give an example...

My wife betrayed my trust. I don't want to go into too much detail, but basically she flirted with another man online. She lied about this to me, twice, before I finally got the truth from her. She had a lot of trust issues when we first got together... issues that we worked through and she genuinely seemed to resolve. Still, when we were dealing with those issues, we had set up some rules to make it easier for her to trust me. We got rid of any social media pages we had (not exactly a big sacrifice), we agreed to never contact our ex's, we gave each other any email passwords, we allowed each other to check the other's phone for any reason (something we never actually did)...we basically made it so we held no secrets from each other.

My wife went through some very tragic medical problems and was stuck at home, far from friends or family, during the day while I worked. I did whatever i could to alleviate her loneliness and boredom. Eventually, I relaxed some of our rules...she was fond of playing a game online with friends (mostly guys) and they were all rather close. They had shared phone numbers and photos to know who they were playing with and to be able to set up times to play with each other. I told her i had no problem with this and she hid nothing from me...even though I told her I trusted her and didn't need to check on her.

Guys that she befriended hit on her often, she's extremely attractive, outgoing, fun, and even has a sexy voice. She would rebuff any advances and stop playing with anyone who wouldn't take a hint. She also told me about these instances. After months and months of this....i caught her in a lie. I didn't say anything at first, because I had no proof...i deal with people who lie all the time so recognizing it has become second nature. I just knew she lied.

About a day later I confronted her with it, she denied. After a long argument (almost 24 hours) i tried to bury the hatchet even though I hadn't gotten the truth. She accepted, and told me another lie. This kept the fight going until I convinced her that I wasn't going to leave her or do something awful, I had guessed what she was trying to cover up...i told her I could move past it...but I needed the truth. Tearful, she confessed she had been flirting with one of her online friends for awhile. It hurt...but it seemed to hurt her more. She so was ashamed and sorry she literally couldn't look me in the eye. My pain at being betrayed was small compared to the pain at her shame. So what did I do?

I told her she wasn't to speak to him again, and I would try my best to trust her again like it didn't happen. I told her in a little time, things would go back to the way they were and we would be fine. That's it.

I shared this incident with a married coworker and his jaw dropped. He thought I had let her off far too easy. He said I should've held this against her and treated her not necessarily meanly...but more coldly for awhile. He said that it's the only way she'll understand the seriousness of what she's done.

What do you think? Was I too forgiving too easily? How would you have handled it? Do you have a similar situation that happened to you, and how did you handle it?

 

[Autumnleaf]

If you forgive her you let it go. If you pretend to forgive her you hold onto it and bring it up whenever its convenient as some twisted form of emotional blackmail.

 

[akmom]

I'm not sure I would consider "online flirting" to be cheating. I guess that depends on what exactly happened. But if there was never any in-person contact, nor plans for such, I guess personally I wouldn't even care. Explicit photo sharing might be the exception. Otherwise I'm not quite sure I understand your hurt.

Other measures, like deleted social media accounts, perplexes me too. I'm sure there must be some history there unique to your relationship that made you two decide it was best. But in and of itself, it seems like unnecessary social isolation.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If you forgive her you let it go. If you pretend to forgive her you hold onto it and bring it up whenever its convenient as some twisted form of emotional blackmail.

Or worse, I know people who think that a betrayal gives them a free chance to "even the score" and betray their spouse. I do neither. I won't use it in future arguments.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You have not addressed the issue of "Why?". Why was she doing it? That indicates a problem in your relationship that the two of you need to devote yourselves to faithfully resolving. Does she feel inadequate? Like she doesn't have enough of your attention? Like you don't treat her as an equal? Is there some reason she's not fully satisfied?

It's not about letting someone off (or keeping them "on," for that matter). It's about restoring your relationship. I wouldn't be satisfied until I knew that there was resolution for the deeper problem that this behavior signifies.

My advice: Consult a Christian Counselor or trusted pastor as a couple.

We're both atheists so pastors and christian counselors are out of the picture. Also, we've been to a therapist once years ago during her worst time for depression... but she isn't receptive to therapy. I can't blame her as I'm not either.

We did address the reason "why" though and we're working on it. It's really c self-image issue on her part but I do all i can to help.

 

[Autumnleaf]

We're both atheists so pastors and christian counselors are out of the picture. Also, we've been to a therapist once years ago during her worst time for depression... but she isn't receptive to therapy. I can't blame her as I'm not either.

We did address the reason "why" though and we're working on it. It's really c self-image issue on her part but I do all i can to help.

That is dangerous.

Some women will get mad at their men and go tell a woman friend all about it. A woman with low self esteem might go be with another man to feel better about herself.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm not sure I would consider "online flirting" to be cheating. I guess that depends on what exactly happened. But if there was never any in-person contact, nor plans for such, I guess personally I wouldn't even care. Explicit photo sharing might be the exception. Otherwise I'm not quite sure I understand your hurt.

Other measures, like deleted social media accounts, perplexes me too. I'm sure there must be some history there unique to your relationship that made you two decide it was best. But in and of itself, it seems like unnecessary social isolation.

The reasons we dropped the social media sites was because of her trust issues. Later, it became a liability for my job. Truthfully though, we're both glad about that decision...we feel like they're a total waste of time. Plus when you see all the problems they cause for other people/couples it's not something we have to worry about.

I know what counts as "cheating" for some couples really doesn't count as cheating for others. I don't know the extent of their flirting (I didn't ask for any gory details) but I don't think it got very explicit. The lie I caught her in was this: I came home from work, she was telling me about her night as she normally does and she showed me a picture of herself she had taken (it was a face pic). When she explained the reason of why she took it I knew she was lying. Since she was lying, i knew that there would really only be one or two reasons she lied to me...so I assumed the most likely one and confronted her about it a day later. Since this was a rather innocent looking face pic, I figured she hadn't gone much further than that with the flirting.

Now, it was cheating to me for a couple reasons. 1 She hid it from me, which in my mind screams that she felt it was wrong of her to be doing. 2. She would consider it cheating if I had done this to her. As I said, not every couple draws the cheating line at the same place...but I think it's important to know where that line is with you and your spouse. If you don't, one of you can easily cross that line without knowing it was even there.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That is dangerous.

Some women will get mad at their men and go tell a woman friend all about it. A woman with low self esteem might go be with another man to feel better about herself.

I can see what you're saying, but I'm not going to worry myself over it just yet lol. I keep things in perspective... she flirted with a guy over the internet from 1000 miles away. If I had to worry about every guy who tried to hit on her or stared too long...I'd be fighting guys every time we go out. I can either trust my wife, or live in constant misery that she's on her way out the door to leave me forever.

Had she not reacted the way she did...had she treated it like it was some small matter, I probably would be more worried. She was genuinely afraid she had ruined our marriage over this and wanted to die. So the most important thing to me was to make sure she understands nothing is damaged beyond repair and she doesn't need to end her life. It took awhile, but she opened up to me about why she did it and I'm ashamed to say I can understand the role i played. She had this medical problem that, to be honest, wore us very thin emotionally. I hadn't fully realized the changes that the stress of this thing had on me over the course of 3.5 years. Not only was i taking care of everything from bills to housework to appointments and even making sure she ate food...but I was carrying us both emotionally. She had all but given up on recovery after 1.5-2 years of dealing with this problem....I had to spend all my time cheering her up, boosting her hopes, and reassuring her I would see her through this. All that time, I didn't have anyone to vent to...no one to lean on...no one to boost my hopes or sympathize with my side of it. When it was all over...i was drained. I simply didn't talk with her the way I did before, I didn't express myself to her the way I did before, I didn't even really smile anymore. She thought I was miserable and she hated herself because she thought it was all her fault. It's not hard to imagine then why she would find some comfort in the attention of another guy. Now, I'm not making excuses for her actions...but I'd be stupid not to listen to why things happened the way they did.

So when I'm saying I'm doing everything I can to work through this...I'm not just talking abouttrying to trust her again. Im talking about being the husband i was before this tragedy affected me... and understanding what I need to do so she understands how I feel. It may sound weird... but it feels like our marriage is actually getting stronger than it's been for maybe the last six months.

 

[Verve]

You have not addressed the issue of "Why?". Why was she doing it? That indicates a problem in your relationship that the two of you need to devote yourselves to faithfully resolving. Does she feel inadequate? Like she doesn't have enough of your attention? Like you don't treat her as an equal? Is there some reason she's not fully satisfied?

It's not about letting someone off (or keeping them "on," for that matter). It's about restoring your relationship. I wouldn't be satisfied until I knew that there was resolution for the deeper problem that this behavior signifies.

My advice: Consult a Christian Counselor or trusted pastor as a couple.

^^^ This

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Your co-worker is full of baloney.

You have reason to be concerned, more the covering up than the online flirting, although there is question about the online flirting as well. It may or may not be "cheating," but in my opinion it's like that old story about seeing how close you can come to the edge of the cliff without actually falling over. Better to stay away from the edge of the cliff than to do that.

My approach would be to stick with I-messages. Rather than focusing on "you did this," speak in terms of "I feel" and "I want."

Then let her know often that you love her, and when you promised "for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, in good times and bad, as long as we both shall live," (or whatever the exact wording was), you meant it.

 

[ValleyGal]

Ana, I have to agree with AL... her low self esteem could very well be causing her to seek attention from others, especially men (if her low self esteem is somehow attached to her relationships with important men in her life). This could come from a perceived need to seek her father's approval because she never got his approval growing up, for example. She might "need" to make other men's heads turn so that she can get her dose of self esteem.

I can tell that you are trying to be the best husband you can be, and that includes taking responsibility for not only learning to trust her again, but also improving her self esteem - because she seeks it from outside herself. There are a couple of things here that need to be addressed. First, she needs to stop seeking self esteem from external sources. That is a very, very hard thing to do because it likely requires taking a look at her relationships with men from childhood, and healing them. Having a sense of self worth needs to come from within because as she gets older, others will stop feeding it and she will need to find another way to get it. She needs to learn to love herself...

The second thing is trust. When she has trust issues with you, you are taking responsibility for making her trust you by behaving in ways that are trustworthy. But when you now have trust issues with her, you are also taking responsibility for that, and you think it's your job to trust her again, with minimal expectations of her. Either way, you are making yourself responsible for both her trusting you and you trusting her. The question is, then, what is she doing to take responsibility for growing trust in your marriage? How can she take responsibility and prove to you that she is trustworthy.

I do agree that being gentle with her in this way is important because she could have relationship issues with a significant male from her early years. You mentioned she does not like counsellors. Is she still recovering from her illness at home? If she has time, she might want to look into some self-help books or online programs that can help with shifting her locus of esteem from others to herself, or building self-esteem, or healing from past childhood wounds that may have damaged her self worth.

 

[mkgal1]

If you forgive her you let it go. If you pretend to forgive her you hold onto it and bring it up whenever its convenient as some twisted form of emotional blackmail.

Exactly.

I also don't believe in punishing each other....but, instead, to try to figure out (together) why things got off course. Punishing each other only builds resentment and drives two people further apart. Ana....you've mentioned before what your co-workers are like. I don't think they are anyone to take advice from (from what you've said).

 

[Ana the Ist]

Exactly.

I also don't believe in punishing each other....but, instead, to try to figure out (together) why things got off course. Punishing each other only builds resentment and drives two people further apart. Ana....you've mentioned before what your co-workers are like. I don't think they are anyone to take advice from (from what you've said).

Lol this is true. It's just so odd for me to go to work and end up surrounded by others that seem so different from me. It's like I'm immersed in some alien culture for 10-12 hours a day.

 

[LinkH]

It could have just been online flirting that she felt guilty about. But there is a possibility it could have been more if she is that ashamed and couldn't look you in the eye. Be on the lookout for 'trickle truth.' If she keeps adding details, that's what I'm talking about.

Like this example. First the wife tells her husband that she went to a bar with girlfriends. She brings it up some other time and there was a man there hitting on her, but nothing happened. The next time she tells the story, he danced with her. The next time, he tried to kiss her but she resisted. The next time she tells the story, he actually did kiss her. Then the husband starts asking. In the final version of the story she tells, she slept with him.

Not saying it went that far. That's just how someone with a guilty conscience might lie and trickle out the truth little by little to assuage the guilt.

As long as you are making rules, never giving out your phone number online is a good one. So is sticking with a handle and not divulging a real name or sharing photos. If it's a temptation, not playing the online game altogether is a good idea, too. This may be a unique opportunity, while she is feeling bad about it, to break the habit of playing online games and get another hobby the two of you can do together or something that won't be so dangerous for your relationship.

 

[.chrys.]

We got rid of any social media pages we had (not exactly a big sacrifice), we agreed to never contact our ex's, we gave each other any email passwords, we allowed each other to check the other's phone for any reason (something we never actually did)...we basically made it so we held no secrets from each other.

Do you share with her your writings here at CF?

 

[sdmsanjose]

By Ana

Is it possible to let your spouse off too easily?"

What do you think? Was I too forgiving too easily? How would you have handled it?

You did NOT let her off or forgive her too easily.
Forgiveness is the first step but accountability needs to be implemented.

How I would handle your situation if I were you is to realize the past mistakes, find out the cause (you seem to have done that), forgive and be as helpful as possible but realize that you are over your head and get help.


It seems to me that you are griped by fear and your own guilt. That is why a good professional third party would be helpful. You are griped by fear because you are afraid that your wife may end her life and you have detailed how you feel that you failed prior to the lies and flirting.

It is understandable that your wife would be weak because of her past and the current medial situation. However, you were a lot naive when you allowed her to play games with mostly males and exchange photos and phone numbers. I hope you now know that kind of decisions is really naive and a dangerous especially since you know her past.


From what you have written your wife is very weak and vulnerable due to her past and her medical condition. You are in a very lopsided marriage in that you are trying to carry your load and a lot of her load; in fact too much of her load. That load is too much for anyone.

I commend you for being so empathic and trying everything you can to help your wife. At this point it seems that you are not going to be enough to help your wife get a lot stronger. You can be very instrumental but you are not going to be enough especially now that you blame yourself partly for her betrayal and lies. You need to get her to a trained therapist that specializes in her particular problem with her self image.

There is a great advantage for us Christians in that our faith can provide great comfort in realizing our acceptance and worth by a loving God. However, you have made it clear that you are not a Christian and not interested in Christian counseling so get the best secular help that you can.

In conclusion what I see is that you are very concerned and a loving husband that has a wife that has deep rooted problems with herself due to her past and current medical condition. Now she has compounded that with her flirting and lies. Your forgiveness and understanding is outstanding! However, that will not be enough for your wife to not be vulnerable to future external praises and attentions from inappropriate sources. She can get a lot better with the right help and her determination.

 

[tenderheart1]

Your married friend gave you ungodly advice. The bible says to forgive 70 x 7. You can forgive, but you still need to hold fast to the boundaries that have been put in place. Maybe you need to re-examine the boundaries to see if they need to change. Building trust is hard. And you are both trying to rebuild with each other, which is even harder. You have to have 100% transparency with each other. No secret email / social media accounts. Passwords open to each. No locking phones. Check phones, check email, etc... Some people wouldn't do all this just to stay with someone. They would just leave. However, if you love that person and you are committed to them through marriage, why wouldn't you want to try to work things out. I wish you well, Sir.

 

[akmom]

Good question, .chrys.

 

[mkgal1]

Lol this is true. It's just so odd for me to go to work and end up surrounded by others that seem so different from me. It's like I'm immersed in some alien culture for 10-12 hours a day.

Personally (just based on what you've posted)....I think that's a good thing that you are remaining yourself and not conforming to their culture. Stay strong.