Let's talk about Universal Basic Income

[Guy1]

Just thought I'd share and maybe start a conversation.

To make a long story short for those who don't know of it, it's basically guaranteed, livable income for every eligible person (the requirements being something basic like being a legal adult and citizen or the like). This would, of course, replace welfare programs like Section 8, SSI, food stamps, etc. and alleviate a number of issues associated with these bureaucratic systems. It has its own subreddit which contains plenty of relevant information. I'll try to answer any questions any of you may have if you're not entirely convinced.

 

[KarateCowboy]

Just thought I'd share and maybe start a conversation.

To make a long story short for those who don't know of it, it's basically guaranteed, livable income for every eligible person (the requirements being something basic like being a legal adult and citizen or the like). This would, of course, replace welfare programs like Section 8, Social Security, food stamps, etc. and alleviate a number of issues associated with these bureaucratic systems. It has its own subreddit which contains plenty of relevant information. I'll try to answer any questions any of you may have if you're not entirely convinced.

What do you have to do to earn this?

 

[Guy1]

What do you have to do to earn this?

Three requirements I'm sure most would agree with would be:

1. Over 18 years of age.
2. Be a citizen for some reasonable period of time (I'd say five years, but that's beside the point)
3. Not currently imprisoned.

 

[NightHawkeye]

What do you have to do to earn this?

Sign here:

In exchange for guaranteed minimal income I, ______________________, willingly surrender the following constitutional rights:

Amendment I - Freedoms, Petitions, Assembly:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II - Right to bear arms:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III - Quartering of soldiers:
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV - Search and arrest:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V - Rights in criminal cases:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb, nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI - Right to a fair trial:
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed; which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence.

Amendment VII - Rights in civil cases:
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII - Bail, fines, punishment:
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX - Rights retained by the People:
The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X - States' rights:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
​

 

[EdwinWillers]

Just thought I'd share and maybe start a conversation.

To make a long story short for those who don't know of it, it's basically guaranteed, livable income for every eligible person (the requirements being something basic like being a legal adult and citizen or the like). This would, of course, replace welfare programs like Section 8, Social Security, food stamps, etc. and alleviate a number of issues associated with these bureaucratic systems. It has its own subreddit which contains plenty of relevant information. I'll try to answer any questions any of you may have if you're not entirely convinced.

Guaranteed by whom?
Guaranteed on what basis?
Who defines what constitutes "livable" income?
If it's "universal," why must someone be "eligible" for it, and who determines who is eligible and who is not eligible for something that is "guaranteed" and "universal?"
Income for what? Being?
Who distributes, manages, administers this "guaranteed universal income?"

And the money question (pun intended): Who pays for it?

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

Just thought I'd share and maybe start a conversation.

To make a long story short for those who don't know of it, it's basically guaranteed, livable income for every eligible person (the requirements being something basic like being a legal adult and citizen or the like). This would, of course, replace welfare programs like Section 8, Social Security, food stamps, etc. and alleviate a number of issues associated with these bureaucratic systems. It has its own subreddit which contains plenty of relevant information. I'll try to answer any questions any of you may have if you're not entirely convinced.

Great?

Where does this money come from?

Does someone create it out of thin air?

 

[MachZer0]

Guaranteed by whom?
Guaranteed on what basis?
Who defines what constitutes "livable" income?
If it's "universal," why must someone be "eligible" for it, and who determines who is eligible and who is not eligible for something that is "guaranteed" and "universal?"
Income for what? Being?
Who distributes, manages, administers this "guaranteed universal income?"

And the money question (pun intended): Who pays for it?

There's a simple solution our liberal friends could invoke to solve this "problem". Follow the example communities provide when a local family experiences a tragedy. They set up a fund in bank to which friends and neighbors can contribute to be used for the family. A similar account could be established to which every willing person could contribute. They could appoint a trustee to oversee the account to dispense funds to every person who meets their qualifications. There is no coercion, no tyranny, no disputes over philosophy. A win, win, win. Not only that, they would have the opportunity to prove that their ideology works, putting the rest of the country to shame.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Three requirements I'm sure most would agree with would be:

1. Over 18 years of age.
2. Be a citizen for some reasonable period of time (I'd say five years, but that's beside the point)
3. Not currently imprisoned.

1) Check
2) Check
3) Check

Sounds like I'm a shoe-in.

My minimum livable income needs are $450,000 (give or take). If you don't mind, could I please get my first annual installment in cash? And uh, up front? $10's and $20's would be perfect.

 

[Guy1]

Guaranteed by whom?

The government.

Guaranteed on what basis?

I am not sure I understand the question 100%.

Who defines what constitutes "livable" income?

Well it's already been done. The amount needs to be enough for a home, food, water, power, and communication. Truly a basic lifestyle.

If it's "universal," why must someone be "eligible" for it

Because universal can, but does not necessarily mean, that literally everyone in the world gets it. If you're born on US soil, you are likely eligible for the program on your 18th birthday.

and who determines who is eligible and who is not eligible for something that is "guaranteed" and "universal?"

Eligibility would be a bigger issue in a system like NIT, but under UBI, Law abiding citizens overwhelmingly qualify for the program. Really, man. The only restrictions that could reasonably be put into place are ones like the three I've already stated. You want to give it to legal adults to prevent parents from taking the money for themselves, and children from using it irresponsibly; you want to give it to new citizens after a period of time to stop people from coming here just to live off it and potentially overwhelm the system; and you want to exclude inmates because we can agree creating a incentive not to break the law is a good thing.

Income for what? Being?

Yup.

Who distributes, manages, administers this "guaranteed universal income?"

A government agency. The system is so simple, a script could send the cash while humans handle registration (If even that).

And the money question (pun intended): Who pays for it?

Tax payers. This part's actually been mentioned in the OP. You do realize this would replace the current welfare programs, yes?

 

[EdwinWillers]

There's a simple solution our liberal friends could invoke to solve this "problem". Follow the example communities provide when a local family experiences a tragedy. They set up a fund in bank to which friends and neighbors can contribute to be used for the family. A similar account could be established to which every willing person could contribute. They could appoint a trustee to oversee the account to dispense funds to every person who meets their qualifications. There is no coercion, no tyranny, no disputes over philosophy. A win, win, win. Not only that, they would have the opportunity to prove that their ideology works, putting the rest of the country to shame.

Hey, it worked in Starnesville.

Happy happy happy!

 

[Guy1]

1) Check
2) Check
3) Check

Sounds like I'm a shoe-in.

My minimum livable income needs are $450,000 (give or take). If you don't mind, could I please get my first annual installment in cash? And uh, up front? $10's and $20's would be perfect.

Bring ID, SSI, and a mailing address to the local registry center and you'll get your first bi-monthly payment of $625 on the 30th.

Great?

Great!

Where does this money come from?

Cutting government programs and simplifying the tax code, removing many deductions and adopting a flat tax.

Does someone create it out of thin air?

Nope.

 

[EdwinWillers]

The government.

I am not sure I understand the question 100%.

You'd get it if you understood the issues involved in your first answer.

Well it's already been done. The amount needs to be enough for a home, food, water, power, and communication. Truly a basic lifestyle.

Actually, "enough for a home, food, water, power, and communication" is not a definition of anything, let alone a definition for everyone. What if I defined "basic" as anything over $450k annually? Who's to say I'm wrong? And on what basis?

A government agency. The system is so simple, a script could send the cash while humans handle registration (If even that).

A "script" - you mean like the scripts on a government website designed specifically for the purpose of mandating care for the people?

Tax payers. This part's actually been mentioned in the OP.

"Tax payers?" Who are they? The ineligible?

You do realize this would replace the current welfare programs, yes?

Oh, I just love that phrase, "you do realize..." The irony it exudes is just so apropos at times.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Bring ID, SSI, and a mailing address to the local registry center and you'll get your first bi-monthly payment of $625 on the 30th.

That's what I thought, a major error right out of the gate. You do realize my minimal living income needs were identified as $450k annually, right? On what basis do you deem it appropriate to cut my guaranteed livable income to 1/30th of my needs?

And why do I need to show an ID, let alone that other stuff? That sounds suspiciously like... nah, I'd better not say it.

 

[Guy1]

You'd get it if you understood the issues involved in your first answer.

Your refusing to clarify isn't constructive.

Actually, "enough for a home, food, water, power, and communication" is not a definition of anything

I'm fairly certain you're not about to try arguing some alternate definition for "Home, food, water, and power." "Communication" is the vaguest one, and that can easily be understood as "telecommunication," which includes phone and internet (Or just the latter since it can potentially replace the former).

What if I defined "basic" as anything over $450k annually? Who's to say I'm wrong? And on what basis?

I would, since I can get you a home, power, enough food to keep you healthy, running water, and internet on less than 1/20 of that.

A "script" - you mean like the scripts on a government website designed specifically for the purpose of mandating care for the people?

No, I mean a "script" like a "computer program" (i.e. A sequence of instructions, written to perform a specified task with a computer.) for distributing the appropriate funds to the individuals signed up.

"Tax payers?" Who are they? The ineligible?

Where has it been implied that taxpayers aren't eligible?

Oh, I just love that phrase, "you do realize..." The irony it exudes is just so apropos at times.

If what you want to say doesn't contribute to the discussion, I suggest you say it out loud instead.

That's what I thought, a major error right out of the gate. You do realize my minimal living income needs were identified as $450k annually, right? On what basis do you deem it appropriate to cut my guaranteed livable income to 1/30th of my needs?

I can get you a home, power, enough food to keep you healthy, running water, and internet on less than 1/20 of that.

If you want more, get a job. Capitalism will take care of your wants from there on out.

And why do I need to show an ID, let alone that other stuff?

Because we need to know who to sign the checks out to.

 

[KarateCowboy]

Three requirements I'm sure most would agree with would be:

1. Over 18 years of age.
2. Be a citizen for some reasonable period of time (I'd say five years, but that's beside the point)
3. Not currently imprisoned.

That's just existing, really. Doesn't answer the question. What would you have to do to earn it? Money doesn't grow on trees, you know.

 

[MachZer0]

That's just existing, really. Doesn't answer the question. What would you have to do to earn it? Money doesn't grow on trees, you know.

That's the whole point. It's earned simply by existing

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

So I get paid not to work! Where do I sign up?

 

[Guy1]

So I get paid not to work! Where do I sign up?

At your local voting booth. Word would need to get around before this has a shot at being passed into law.

That's just existing, really. Doesn't answer the question. What would you have to do to earn it? Money doesn't grow on trees, you know.

You've already answered the question. There's no more special requirements to it. The idea really is that simple.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Just thought I'd share and maybe start a conversation.

To make a long story short for those who don't know of it, it's basically guaranteed, livable income for every eligible person (the requirements being something basic like being a legal adult and citizen or the like). This would, of course, replace welfare programs like Section 8, Social Security, food stamps, etc. and alleviate a number of issues associated with these bureaucratic systems. It has its own subreddit which contains plenty of relevant information. I'll try to answer any questions any of you may have if you're not entirely convinced.

Social Security isn't a welfare program.

 

[Guy1]

Social Security isn't a welfare program.

Fair enough. It's still being replaced, though.

EDIT: The problem has been rectified.