Let the reader understand

[Timothew]

Mark 13:14

"Let the reader understand"

Are these Jesus's words or are they Mark's words?

 

[RonADiscipleOfChrist]

Jesus' words

 

[Hairy Tic]

Mark 13:14

"Let the reader understand"

Are these Jesus's words or are they Mark's words?

## To judge by the context:

"When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong--let the reader understand--then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains"

- they seem to be a marginal note, and certainly not the word of Jesus. They need not be by the Evangelist. (There are several indications in the gospels that the text has been edited)

Why would Jesus say words which are useful only to a reader of the Gospel ? That would presuppose that Jesus intended to leave a written record of his ministry.

There is also the question of how far the chapter is a unity, and how it is related to Matthew 24.

 

[ittarter]

Biblical scholarship agrees unanimously with Hairy Tic.

 

[granpa]

## To judge by the context:

"When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong--let the reader understand--then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains"

- they seem to be a marginal note, and certainly not the word of Jesus. They need not be by the Evangelist. (There are several indications in the gospels that the text has been edited)

Why would Jesus say words which are useful only to a reader of the Gospel ? That would presuppose that Jesus intended to leave a written record of his ministry.

There is also the question of how far the chapter is a unity, and how it is related to Matthew 24.

Um, it says 'let the one who reads the Book of Daniel understand' not 'let the one who reads this gospel understand'.

 

[ittarter]

Um, it says 'let the one who reads the Book of Daniel understand' not 'let the one who reads this gospel understand'.

Umm, it doesn't actually say either. The text, "Let the reader understand." There were no parenthetical markings so anything Mark wished to add (like this) to Jesus' words would simply be an extra independent clause.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

In the 28 years I've been alive, I can honestly say this is the first time I've heard of any confusion on this matter. I've always taken it as a given that it was pretty universally understood that this was Mark adding his, "Now pay attention here".

Mark wants the reader to pay attention, because what Jesus was talking about was significant (i.e. the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in the year 70). Of course it could have been an addition to the text sometime after the initial composition, just like the traditional Long Ending in Mark.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ittarter]

In the 28 years I've been alive, I can honestly say this is the first time I've heard of any confusion on this matter.

You'll find that a great many people are exceptionally confused about very simple matters if you hang out on CF much longer

 

[Timothew]

You'll find that a great many people are exceptionally confused about very simple matters if you hang out on CF much longer

And get more confused the longer they stay!

 

[Timothew]

In the 28 years I've been alive, I can honestly say this is the first time I've heard of any confusion on this matter. I've always taken it as a given that it was pretty universally understood that this was Mark adding his, "Now pay attention here".

Mark wants the reader to pay attention, because what Jesus was talking about was significant (i.e. the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in the year 70). Of course it could have been an addition to the text sometime after the initial composition, just like the traditional Long Ending in Mark.

-CryptoLutheran

I agree that those were Mark's words, but this writer disagrees,

What did Jesus mean when He said, “let the reader understand”?

Last Days Mystery - Let the Reader Understand

This other writer (on the parallel passage in Matthew) Barnes' Notes on the Bible believes it is the words of "the evangelist".

Whoso readeth ... - This seems to be a remark made by the evangelist to direct the attention of the reader particularly to the meaning of the prophecy by Daniel.

But why would Matthew and Mark use the same phrase, if both added it? It seems that they are quoting the words of Jesus.

So I ask simple questions that a 4 year old could answer, and I get different answers from different "experts."

 

[ittarter]

But why would Matthew and Mark use the same phrase, if both added it? It seems that they are quoting the words of Jesus.

Either that, or (since we can pretty much rule out the possibility that they were Jesus' words) it demonstrates clear literary dependence of one upon the other.

 

[Mr Dave]

Mark's own words.

The gospel writers did add little bits in to aid the reader (e.g. John 20:16, I doubt Mary actually said "Rabbouni, which means teacher," but just "Rabbouni."), so I see no reason to not think a similar thing is happening here.

 

[Timothew]

Mark's own words.

The gospel writers did add little bits in to aid the reader (e.g. John 20:16, I doubt Mary actually said "Rabbouni, which means teacher," but just "Rabbouni."), so I see no reason to not think a similar thing is happening here.

I chuckled when I imagined Mary saying "Rabbouni which means teacher."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Let the reader understand

Howdy bro! Did you see this thread I created on that topic?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7356783-2/#post51276720
The One Reading.....

 

[Timothew]

Let the reader understand

Howdy bro! Did you see this thread I created on that topic?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7356783-2/#post51276720
The One Reading.....

Thanks! I wrote some graffiti on your thread over there.

 

[plmarquette]

have to take all in context, not "lucky-dipping" a verse at a time

the abomination of desolation....
the antichrist standing in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem [not done yet is it]
and declaring himself god...desecrating the sactuary and temple...
the end of days, judgement, armageddon, etc...


prophecy [when what you read now, comes to pass] ...when the "...." hits the fan, run, do not walk...to the nearest exit..
hasn't happened...when the persecution starts...one world government...christians return to the catacombs....two witnesses start preaching...plagues, earth quakes..
repent, return, prepare....

 

[Hairy Tic]

Mark 13:14

"Let the reader understand"

Are these Jesus's words or are they Mark's words?

## They are probably an insertion for the benefit of the anagnōstes/lector/reader who read the text in public worship. There is a similar note in Revelation.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Thanks! I wrote some graffiti on your thread over there.

Kewl!

 

[papaJP]

No flight can remove us out of God's presence:​

“Whither shall I go
from thy Spirit, from thy presence, that is, from thy spiritual presence,​

from thyself, who art a Spirit?”

“If I ascend​

​

thither, as I hope to do shortly, thou art there,​

and it will be my eternal bliss to be with thee there.” Heaven is a vast large
place, replenished with an innumerable company, and yet there is no
escaping God's eye there, in any corner, or in any crowd. The inhabitants
of that world have as necessary a dependence upon God, and lie as open to​

his strict scrutiny, as the inhabitants of this.

If I make my bed in hell​

​

(an uncomfortable place to
make a bed in, where there is no rest day or night, yet thousands will make
their bed for ever in those flames), behold, thou art there, in thy power​

and justice. God's wrath is the fire which will there burn everlastingly,

The reference is from a psalm that is written or understood as written by David.
Are these Jesus's words or are they Mark's words?

Moot question. I would like to know how you can quote a psalm and ask this question.

These are generally understood to be written by David who received the revelation from God.

 

[Timothew]

No flight can remove us out of God's presence:​

“Whither shall I go

from thy Spirit, from thy presence, that is, from thy spiritual presence,​

from thyself, who art a Spirit?”

“If I ascend

thither, as I hope to do shortly, thou art there,

and it will be my eternal bliss to be with thee there.” Heaven is a vast large
place, replenished with an innumerable company, and yet there is no
escaping God's eye there, in any corner, or in any crowd. The inhabitants
of that world have as necessary a dependence upon God, and lie as open to​

his strict scrutiny, as the inhabitants of this.

If I make my bed in hell ​

​

(an uncomfortable place to

make a bed in, where there is no rest day or night, yet thousands will make
their bed for ever in those flames), behold, thou art there, in thy power​

and justice. God's wrath is the fire which will there burn everlastingly,

The reference is from a psalm that is written or understood as written by David.
Are these Jesus's words or are they Mark's words?

Moot question. I would like to know how you can quote a psalm and ask this question.

These are generally understood to be written by David who received the revelation from God.


​

​

​

My question on this thread was about the passage in Mark and the Synoptic passage.

The Psalm is part of my signature, I just wanted to remember that passage and put it down as a reminder that Hell (Sheol) cannot mean "Eternal separation from God," as a lot of people speculate. It seems to me that David is saying "Even if I die, God is with me." To me it is a comforting passage of scripture, not a horrifying threat from an "Angry God."

I'm sorry that the thread got confusing with my sig line. I'll take the sig off in a few days.

Tim
​