legalism

YosemiteSam · Jul 19, 2011

Here is what frogster said post #202

Dude, the law was nailed, for the Christian, through the body, not for the unsaved, they have not gone to the cross. I have no problem thinking the law stands to condemn, and kill, and arouses sin, as it's purpose, for the unsaved, the way Paul used in in Rom 1-3, and 7, and the way he told Tim, the law was not for the church, the just, but for the UNsaved, in chapter 1. But once we die to flesh and law, we are not under it, it is abolished for the Church.

So the law still exist? Correct? Yes or no?

YosemiteSam · Jul 19, 2011

from scratch said:
Are you trying to insult me? Or are you trying to say that after I repented I must follow the law and not the leading of the Holy Spirit? Gal 5:18. I'm not subject to the law.

Here is what frogster wrote: post #202

Dude, the law was nailed, for the Christian, through the body, not for the unsaved, they have not gone to the cross. I have no problem thinking the law stands to condemn, and kill, and arouses sin, as it's purpose, for the unsaved, the way Paul used in in Rom 1-3, and 7, and the way he told Tim, the law was not for the church, the just, but for the UNsaved, in chapter 1. But once we die to flesh and law, we are not under it, it is abolished for the Church.

So I ask you... So the law still exist? Correct? Yes or No

Frogster · Jul 19, 2011

YosemiteSam said:
Here is what frogster wrote:

Dude, the law was nailed, for the Christian, through the body, not for the unsaved, they have not gone to the cross. I have no problem thinking the law stands to condemn, and kill, and arouses sin, as it's purpose, for the unsaved, the way Paul used in in Rom 1-3, and 7, and the way he told Tim, the law was not for the church, the just, but for the UNsaved, in chapter 1. But once we die to flesh and law, we are not under it, it is abolished for the Church.

So I ask you... So the law still exist? Correct? Yes or No

Read what I said..alot..I said....many times..

Paul said who the law was not for, the justified, 1 Tim 1, but for the unsaved.

Now, how is it, you think you kinda "got me" or something like that?

It is abolished, read Eph 2:15, and you tell me.

15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

The law is for dead people, we are raised out of all that. We are not under law, Rom 6;14, we are in the regin of grace, read rom 5;21.

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING, NEED LAW, NOT THE LIVING ONES.

from scratch · Jul 19, 2011

YosemiteSam said:
Here is what frogster wrote: post #202

Dude, the law was nailed, for the Christian, through the body, not for the unsaved, they have not gone to the cross. I have no problem thinking the law stands to condemn, and kill, and arouses sin, as it's purpose, for the unsaved, the way Paul used in in Rom 1-3, and 7, and the way he told Tim, the law was not for the church, the just, but for the UNsaved, in chapter 1. But once we die to flesh and law, we are not under it, it is abolished for the Church.

So I ask you... So the law still exist? Correct? Yes or No

Both - I Tim 1:8-10

from scratch · Jul 19, 2011

Frogster said:
Read what I said..alot..I said....many times..

Paul said who the law was not for, the justified, 1 Tim 1, but for the unsaved.

Now, how is it, you think you kinda "got me" or something like that?

It is abolished, read Eph 2:15, and you tell me.

15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

The law is for dead people, we are raised out of all that. We are not under law, Rom 6;14, we are in the regin of grace, read rom 5;21.

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING, NEED LAW, NOT THE LIVING ONES.

Love the last line. It is absolutley great!!!!

YosemiteSam · Jul 19, 2011

Frogster said:
Here is what frogster said post #202

Dude, the law was nailed, for the Christian, through the body, not for the unsaved, they have not gone to the cross. I have no problem thinking the law stands to condemn, and kill, and arouses sin, as it's purpose, for the unsaved, the way Paul used in in Rom 1-3, and 7, and the way he told Tim, the law was not for the church, the just, but for the UNsaved, in chapter 1. But once we die to flesh and law, we are not under it, it is abolished for the Church.

So everybody who visits this forum can know. I am not asking whether it applies to the saved or unsaved or whether it applies/or does not apply to you.

No need for go read this or go read that.

So the law still exist? Correct? Yes or no?

YosemiteSam · Jul 19, 2011

Here is what frogster said post #202

Dude, the law was nailed, for the Christian, through the body, not for the unsaved, they have not gone to the cross. I have no problem thinking the law stands to condemn, and kill, and arouses sin, as it's purpose, for the unsaved, the way Paul used in in Rom 1-3, and 7, and the way he told Tim, the law was not for the church, the just, but for the UNsaved, in chapter 1. But once we die to flesh and law, we are not under it, it is abolished for the Church.

So everybody who visits this forum can know. I am not asking whether it applies to the saved or unsaved or whether it applies/or does not apply to you.

No need for go read this or go read that.

So the law still exist? Correct? Yes or no?

YosemiteSam · Jul 19, 2011

from scratch said:
Love the last line. It is absolutley great!!!!

Here is what frogster said post #202

Dude, the law was nailed, for the Christian, through the body, not for the unsaved, they have not gone to the cross. I have no problem thinking the law stands to condemn, and kill, and arouses sin, as it's purpose, for the unsaved, the way Paul used in in Rom 1-3, and 7, and the way he told Tim, the law was not for the church, the just, but for the UNsaved, in chapter 1. But once we die to flesh and law, we are not under it, it is abolished for the Church.

So everybody who visits this forum can know. I am not asking whether it applies to the saved or unsaved or whether it applies/or does not apply to you.

No need for go read this or go read that.

So the law still exist? Correct? Yes or no?

JohnRabbit · Jul 19, 2011

from scratch said:
Both - I Tim 1:8-10

come on, from scratch! can't be both.

either the law still exists or it doesn't.

i went and looked at 1tim 1:8-10 and i see how you came up with the answer "both", but it won't wash.

paul said there is none righteous (rom 3:10) and he was speaking to the church!

then, about himself he said that he was the "chief" among sinners (1tim 1:15)!

so, you want to try to answer YosemiteSam's question again?

Frogster · Jul 20, 2011

JohnRabbit said:
come on, from scratch! can't be both.

either the law still exists or it doesn't.

i went and looked at 1tim 1:8-10 and i see how you came up with the answer "both", but it won't wash.

paul said there is none righteous (rom 3:10) and he was speaking to the church!

then, about himself he said that he was the "chief" among sinners (1tim 1:15)!

so, you want to try to answer YosemiteSam's question again?

Just so long as you see, that we see , that you put WITH verses. Then you act like one of your posts answered...ok, whatever, we can let it go..

Who is the law for, the living brothers, that would be the Christians, or the dead?

4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.

Frogster · Jul 20, 2011

YosemiteSam said:
Here is what frogster said post #202

Dude, the law was nailed, for the Christian, through the body, not for the unsaved, they have not gone to the cross. I have no problem thinking the law stands to condemn, and kill, and arouses sin, as it's purpose, for the unsaved, the way Paul used in in Rom 1-3, and 7, and the way he told Tim, the law was not for the church, the just, but for the UNsaved, in chapter 1. But once we die to flesh and law, we are not under it, it is abolished for the Church.

So everybody who visits this forum can know. I am not asking whether it applies to the saved or unsaved or whether it applies/or does not apply to you.

No need for go read this or go read that.

So the law still exist? Correct? Yes or no?

When was Paul under law, while living or dead? Lets put on our mystical thinking caps please.

19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Frogster · Jul 20, 2011

from scratch said:
Love the last line. It is absolutley great!!!!

from scratch · Jul 20, 2011

YosemiteSam said:
Here is what frogster said post #202

Dude, the law was nailed, for the Christian, through the body, not for the unsaved, they have not gone to the cross. I have no problem thinking the law stands to condemn, and kill, and arouses sin, as it's purpose, for the unsaved, the way Paul used in in Rom 1-3, and 7, and the way he told Tim, the law was not for the church, the just, but for the UNsaved, in chapter 1. But once we die to flesh and law, we are not under it, it is abolished for the Church.

So everybody who visits this forum can know. I am not asking whether it applies to the saved or unsaved or whether it applies/or does not apply to you.

No need for go read this or go read that.

So the law still exist? Correct? Yes or no?

Then your asking me to depart from Scripture for the express reason to discredit. This personal attack is seen all over your posts.

from scratch · Jul 20, 2011

JohnRabbit said:
come on, from scratch! can't be both.

either the law still exists or it doesn't.

i went and looked at 1tim 1:8-10 and i see how you came up with the answer "both", but it won't wash.

Why won't it?

paul said there is none righteous (rom 3:10) and he was speaking to the church!

Another proof that the Bible isn't trust wothy and Paul is demented and not inspired. Good job. IOW for the purpose of discussion this is entirely out of context and inteneded meaning. The purpose is deception.

then, about himself he said that he was the "chief" among sinners (1tim 1:15)![/quote]Yes and you forget all about dead to the law, not under the law, end of the law and throw it out. You forget about Rom 4 where it clearly shows that we're righteous and thus I Tim 1:9 is about the Christian who is called righteous. Without this one can't see God (be saved). You argue against Christianity.

so, you want to try to answer YosemiteSam's question again?

Click to expand...

Do you think it will change my answer? You are clearly trying to force an answer that you want to hear. Sorry I don't get involved in the ear tickling business.

JohnRabbit · Jul 20, 2011

from scratch said:
Why won't it?Another proof that the Bible isn't trust wothy and Paul is demented and not inspired. Good job. IOW for the purpose of discussion this is entirely out of context and inteneded meaning. The purpose is deception.

[/COLOR]

then, about himself he said that he was the "chief" among sinners (1tim 1:15)![/quote]Yes and you forget all about dead to the law, not under the law, end of the law and throw it out. You forget about Rom 4 where it clearly shows that we're righteous and thus I Tim 1:9 is about the Christian who is called righteous. Without this one can't see God (be saved). You argue against Christianity.Do you think it will change my answer? You are clearly trying to force an answer that you want to hear. Sorry I don't get involved in the ear tickling business.

Click to expand...

apparently, coming from you, paul forgot about "dead to the law" because he's the one that said he is "chief" of the sinners!

so why are you giving me the business?

RND · Jul 20, 2011

from scratch said:
Then your asking me to depart from Scripture for the express reason to discredit. This personal attack is seen all over your posts.

As someone new to this thread I'm reading in amazement. Personal attack? Really? Interesting. Why not just answer the question?

YosemiteSam · Jul 20, 2011

RND said:
As someone new to this thread I'm reading in amazement. Personal attack? Really? Interesting. Why not just answer the question?

They have already answered the question in post 202...In one breath the law was nailed to the cross or abolished and in another they say it still exist for the sinner.

I thought my question was plain. Does it exist? The answer is yes and they even said it in a round about way. LOL

from scratch · Jul 20, 2011

YosemiteSam said:
They have already answered the question in post 202...In one breath the law was nailed to the cross or abolished and in another they say it still exist for the sinner.

I thought my question was plain. Does it exist? The answer is yes and they even said it in a round about way. LOL

What does I Tim 1:8-10 say? Here ya go - 8But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

JohnRabbit · Jul 20, 2011

from scratch said:
But what are you doing with this very post I'm responding to? Look we can't seem to get anyone to understand how to deal with this problem. So we'll tolerate you till you get tired.Yep sure enough it doesn't apply to me and then you say it does. Make up your mind, Neither me nor Frogster have ever said the law doesn't exist. Your sole purpose for the question is to discredit as I said and have always understood. You can't win any other way. Even then you took my satatment out of context saying you don't care. Amazing. That is exactly what the enemy of my soul would do. False accusation only makes a fool out of the accuser.

Now can a Christian practice any thing in your list? Why certianly not as has been pointed out with another Scripture - 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Notice the very first thing in the list is Adultery. I highlighted some other wordsthat would make some great word studies.

I've also been saying for awhile incidence isn't obedience. The real issue here is the refusal to accept the NC. The NC covenant doesn't authorized sin. I didn't include v 13 above - 13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. This means don't practice sin.

you say that (the red highlighted portion), but you don't agree that sin is violation of God's law.

you post gal 3:19, in which, paul talks about the works of the flesh and using this as a definition of sin? paul is pointing out the works of the flesh, all of which, goes against the law of God!

now, can you tell me of anyone who is practicing the things in those verses that is practicing righteousness? (ps 119:172, col 1:10, col 3:20, 1jn 3:22)

walking in the spirit, even? (rom 8:4,7)

Frogster · Jul 20, 2011

JohnRabbit said:
you say that (the red highlighted portion), but you don't agree that sin is violation of God's law.

you post gal 3:19, in which, paul talks about the works of the flesh and using this as a definition of sin? paul is pointing out the works of the flesh, all of which, goes against the law of God!

now, can you tell me of anyone who is practicing the things in those verses that is practicing righteousness? (ps 119:172, col 1:10, col 3:20, 1jn 3:22)

walking in the spirit, even? (rom 8:4,7)

Were we raised up WITH Christ?

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