Lee Strobel

[Angelwarrioress]

Here is why I do believe in Creationism. Do with this info what you will, however to discredit it before you read his books, well that is on you.

http://www.leestrobel.com/

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Lee Strobel is a journalist with a law degree. I fail to see how his opionion could be of relevance to scientific issues.

 

[Elduran]

A review of Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ"

The Case Against Faith: A Critical Look at Lee Strobel's The Case for Faith (4th ed., 2006)

Another Review of Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ"

Well, if URLs are all you're going to give out, URLs are all you'll get from me

 

[thaumaturgy]

Here is why I do believe in Creationism. Do with this info what you will, however to discredit it before you read his books, well that is on you.

http://www.leestrobel.com/

I have seen his books out there in the bookstores. I have to admit I've yet to read any of them. I will have to make time to read them.

But, on that point may I ask you what you've read from the evolution, science side?

All philosophical arguments about complexity etc, aside, what have you read on the science side?

Personally I think that most evolution-believing biologists and paleontologists come to believe in evolution not because of some particularly clever writer, but because of the raw data.

The data show a clear picture of deep time, life changing over time, commonalities across genera and no evidence for overt supernatural influence.

To intepret "creation" is to actively ignore the much larger book of the actual planet we live on.

I've often exhorted creationists to put the Bible down for a few minutes and go look at the earth. Don't come to the pages of the rock record with some preconceived notion in mind.

But don't fall into the trap that since we all have access to the earth we all have in inherent understanding of what it says. There are professionals who sift through the data and come to conclusions.

I've read the Bible and I've gone to school to get a PhD in geology. I've visited both sides of the argument. If I don't read Stoebel it is on my shoulders to explain if I don't agree with him. It is a shame if I gainsay a word of his unless I've read him.

But by the same coin, it is against any creationist who doesn't believe what the earth tells them unless they've made a concerted effort to understand it.

 

[Angelwarrioress]

I agree and I am I going to research the other side as well. Lee Strobel interviewed the top scientists,archeologist's, and many others who are the cream of the crop in their respective fields to disprove the bible and prove once and for all that Evolution is all the answer we need and that religion , specifically Christianity was false. He interviewed and studied for years and had more evidence for God than against. In the book " The Case for Faith",and "The Case for the Creator", he goes only on the scientific and archaeological evidence taken from the top persons in the world in those respective fields to back up the bible's claims. "The Case for Christ" interviews the top archaeologists in the world , etc, to prove that Christ did all that was said that he did. He is my favorite author. My point is if you give me links to your sites I am going to read it and give it a chance, but if you cannot take the time to see my side, well that is your choice. Please do not force your views upon me if you are not going to give mine a chance. That just leads me to think you think you are better than everyone else and you really do not care about others or what they have to say. You just want to control others and force them to see your views. In fact it makes me feel like you are just using others to get what you want and could care less about anybody but yourself. If you can't use and control somebody than you want nothing to do with them and see them as useless. To me I refuse to be controlled and want to have freedom to believe what i feel to be the truth, but I am open to hear your beliefs and consider them.

 

[Elduran]

Lee Strobel interviewed the top scientists,archeologist's, and many others who are the cream of the crop in their respective fields to disprove the bible and prove once and for all that Evolution is all the answer we need and that religion , specifically Christianity was false.

Actually from what I can remember of his works, he interviewed only people who already agreed that creation was right and evolution was wrong. He certainly didn't interview "the top scientists,archeologist's, and many others who are the cream of the crop in their respective fields" and then come to conclusions based on the evidence.

Also, if I recall correctly, his books were published a very long time after he became a creationist and contained quotes from after that time, so it's unlikely that he ever did this legendary investigation with any intent to prove evolution correct.

 

[thaumaturgy]

My point is if you give me links to your sites I am going to read it and give it a chance,

I was talking more in terms of science qua science, rather than links.

but if you cannot take the time to see my side, well that is your choice.

To be fair, Lee Stroebel aside, I have seen the Creationist side of the argument and found it utterly lacking when stacked up against the data. But I do understand where you are coming from. Believe it or not I am not without abundant knowledge of theology, Christianity, the Bible, etc.

Please do not force your views upon me if you are not going to give mine a chance.

I do not wish to de-convert anyone. I would however ask that you remember that this is a science discussion board, so our "personal feelings" are not on the table.

What is on the table is hard data versus religious ideas. No one forces you to believe in "gravity", but you fail to do so at your own peril. Evolution and Creationism is a bit different. You could go through your whole life not believing in evolution and it probably wouldn't affect you one way or another. They key is that you are not responsible for biological research, and hopefully you are not voting on any issues in which a firm appreciation for data and Science are important.

After I finish the current books I'm reading on the history of early Christianity I will certainly consider reading Stoebel since he is omnipresent on the bookshelves.

Oh, and one other thing, not sure if you are just having a bad day or what but please tone down on the accusations that I am only interested in using people and forcing them to believe what I believe. Frankly I'd like to keep that sorta "sub rosa" so that when I do finally take over the earth it will have been a surprise to everyone!

 

[Angelwarrioress]

thaumaturgy- Amen, finally a mature person ! (Keels over from shock!)

As for Elduran you have no idea what you are talking about, lol !

 

[JBJoe]

I have only attempted to read one of Strobel's books: The Case for Christ. I believe it was his first in this series.

I only made it about 1/3 of the way because I was utterly disgusted by him resting on his credentials as a journalist and then THROWING AWAY ALL HIS JOURNALISTIC INTEGRITY. He did absolutely nothing that a journalist should do.

Tell me, in his new books, did he interview anyone, ANYONE, antagonistic to his argument? When someone presented an unsupported argument, did he challenge it? When someone took an unjustified leap of logic, did Strobel point this out?

That was the book which the senior pastor at church believed would convince me to accept Christ. I'm not saying I reject Him, just that the book in question was absolute bile.

Are his (Strobel's) new ones any better, or is he still preaching to the choir and ignoring genuine journalism altogether?

 

[Angelwarrioress]

I have seen his books out there in the bookstores. I have to admit I've yet to read any of them. I will have to make time to read them.

But, on that point may I ask you what you've read from the evolution, science side?

All philosophical arguments about complexity etc, aside, what have you read on the science side?

Personally I think that most evolution-believing biologists and paleontologists come to believe in evolution not because of some particularly clever writer, but because of the raw data.

The data show a clear picture of deep time, life changing over time, commonalities across genera and no evidence for overt supernatural influence.

To intepret "creation" is to actively ignore the much larger book of the actual planet we live on.

I've often exhorted creationists to put the Bible down for a few minutes and go look at the earth. Don't come to the pages of the rock record with some preconceived notion in mind.

But don't fall into the trap that since we all have access to the earth we all have in inherent understanding of what it says. There are professionals who sift through the data and come to conclusions.

I've read the Bible and I've gone to school to get a PhD in geology. I've visited both sides of the argument. If I don't read Stoebel it is on my shoulders to explain if I don't agree with him. It is a shame if I gainsay a word of his unless I've read him.

But by the same coin, it is against any creationist who doesn't believe what the earth tells them unless they've made a concerted effort to understand it.

I am in full agreement with this ! This person has said it better than I ever could, Thank you !

 

[Elduran]

As for Elduran you have no idea what you are talking about, lol !

Wow, what a great response to my comments. A real credit to creationists everywhere...

 

[Pesto]

I agree and I am I going to research the other side as well.

A good place to start, if you haven't been there before.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/

 

[Angelwarrioress]

Thanks Pesto I will look at it ! That is all I was saying look at both sides and debate the issues, not just say I am right without showing your evidence. If you can show me how Lee Strobel is wrong in all of his books on all the issues he tackles, I would like to read it.

 

[TeddyKGB]

Thanks Pesto I will look at it ! That is all I was saying look at both sides and debate the issues, not just say I am right without showing your evidence. If you can show me how Lee Strobel is wrong in all of his books on all the issues he tackles, I would like to read it.

What primary literature does Strobel cite in support of his scientific claims?

 

[Nitron]

Okay, his tree of life video was stupid. He knows he can't refute MtDNA, retroviruses, and hox genes. So he pansies off and says "look! life became diverse in a 10-40 million year period! Evolution is wrong!" The Cambrian explosion, although a time of innovation, was not sudden at all.

 

[AdalWulf]

Yep. what crud

 

[Nitron]

The music was kinda cool though.

 

[Angelwarrioress]

Wow, what a great response to my comments. A real credit to creationists everywhere...

Well , if you could give me a real response instead of whining, I would honor you with a dignified response.

 

[Angelwarrioress]

The music was kinda cool though.

Off topic I like your character. If you like music here are some bands I like , but you would not because well they talk about God, but i still think they sound great !

http://www.plumbinfo.com/

http://www.skillet.com/intro.php

http://www.flyleafmusic.com/

 

[Angelwarrioress]

Yep. what crud

How intelligent your response is, good for you !