Learning the Sabbath truth...

Pythons said:

All I'm saying is that the Scripture says Paul would meet all the Christians @ the same time....
...And the time was Sunday if the 1st day of the week equated to the Gregorian calendar.
...The identical order for people laying by themselves their donations was for all those Churches.

And yes, we don't have to argue and you have my total blessing for following your beliefs...
...And honoring God in the way you think you should.
...On Saturday / Sabbath.

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I understand what Paul says. I've read commentary however that points out that this setting aside of the money was so that Paul could collect it all at once while en route to Jerusalem.

Circumcision was a perpetual covenant sign and was one law God was willing to kill a person Himself over...
...This was changed ( replaced by something else ).
...There is no 'thus sayeth the Lord for ceasing this covenant sign.
...We accept the Apostles teaching on the matter.

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Funny you should bring this up. My pastor was talking to me about this while I was at his house for dinner. He stated that Paul's statements in regards to circumcision were based around people trying to tie that to salvation. Paul was trying to teach them that what matters is the belief in Christ that the gentiles had. If I'm not mistaken, Paul never actually teaches that one ought not be circumcised. He simply takes the focus off of the work, and puts it on Christ.

I swear to you Stryder, it will never come to that.....
...We may each however suffer execution when / if Islam covers the world in it's blackness.
....Those folks have no problem at all killing over religion.

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[/quote]

Islam isn't Babylon. The word of Prophecy is sure, and if God says Babylon will issue death to those who won't worship her, than that's what's going to happen. Trying to make anyone other than a fallen church Babylon is only going to hurt you in the long run. Again, trust me when I saw I wich it wouldn't turn out like this.

Stryder06 said:

I understand what Paul says. I've read commentary however that points out that this setting aside of the money was so that Paul could collect it all at once while en route to Jerusalem.

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Exactly, and the one day when all the Christians could be counted on being together....
....Was the same day the gifts were collected.
....So that when St. Paul got there - there would be no gathering.

Stryder said:

Funny you should bring this up. My pastor was talking to me about this while I was at his house for dinner. He stated that Paul's statements in regards to circumcision were based around people trying to tie that to salvation. Paul was trying to teach them that what matters is the belief in Christ that the gentiles had. If I'm not mistaken, Paul never actually teaches that one ought not be circumcised. He simply takes the focus off of the work, and puts it on Christ.

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I can only answer,

Galations 5,1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.


That equates to a teaching that states if you were not already circumcised....
....That you should absolutely NOT get circumcised.
....Even though we read how serious God was about Israel "observing" this sign.

Stryder said:

Islam isn't Babylon. The word of Prophecy is sure, and if God says Babylon will issue death to those who won't worship her, than that's what's going to happen. Trying to make anyone other than a fallen church Babylon is only going to hurt you in the long run. Again, trust me when I saw I wich it wouldn't turn out like this.

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Babylon is simply every enemy of God - it's a mindset where the person puts what they want above God....
....You can see it on t.v. / in music / in books and everywhere people exist.

Babylon isn't religion - it's the other direction from there...
...It's doing what you want, when you want without any reguard for anything other then yourself.
...It's what "the world" sees as value in the moment.

Pythons said:

Exactly, and the one day when all the Christians could be counted on being together....
....Was the same day the gifts were collected.
....So that when St. Paul got there - there would be no gathering.

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First, a gathering together does not a holy day make. Second, Paul doesn't say anything about meeting with a group of people. You still seem to be missing my point that you're implying this was a day when they were gathered together for worship, even though the text says nothing of that.

I can only answer,

Galations 5,1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.


That equates to a teaching that states if you were not already circumcised....
....That you should absolutely NOT get circumcised.
....Even though we read how serious God was about Israel "observing" this sign.

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This verse teaches nothing of the sort. There you go again implying one thing while missing the overall point Paul was making. When you're dealing with a group of people who are teaching salvation by works, you have to bring to their attention that those works are worthless apart from Christ. That is what Paul was doing.

Babylon is simply every enemy of God - it's a mindset where the person puts what they want above God....
....You can see it on t.v. / in music / in books and everywhere people exist.

Babylon isn't religion - it's the other direction from there...
...It's doing what you want, when you want without any reguard for anything other then yourself.
...It's what "the world" sees as value in the moment.

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This is not how the bible describes Babylon. Babylon is is the enemy of God because it is a corrupt religious system. Beasts represent kingdoms. Women represent a church. It's not as ambiguous as you make it.

Stryder06 said:

First, a gathering together does not a holy day make. Second, Paul doesn't say anything about meeting with a group of people. You still seem to be missing my point that you're implying this was a day when they were gathered together for worship, even though the text says nothing of that.

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Acts 7,20
And upon the first day of the week, WHEN the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight

G2806
1) to break
a) used in the NT of the breaking of bread or communion

That's straight out of the Strong's - the 1st day of the week was the day the disciples "came together"...
...To celebrate communion ( body and blood of Christ ).

What "day of the week" do SDA's celebrate communion Stryder?

Stryder said:

This verse teaches nothing of the sort. There you go again implying one thing while missing the overall point Paul was making. When you're dealing with a group of people who are teaching salvation by works, you have to bring to their attention that those works are worthless apart from Christ. That is what Paul was doing.

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You are suggesting what Paul really meant for Gentiles was to go ahead and get circumcised...
...Just so long as they did it with Christ?

Stryder said:

This is not how the bible describes Babylon. Babylon is is the enemy of God because it is a corrupt religious system. Beasts represent kingdoms. Women represent a church. It's not as ambiguous as you make it.

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Where do you see that?

Pythons said:

Acts 7,20
And upon the first day of the week, WHEN the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight


What "day of the week" do SDA's celebrate communion Stryder?

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We do communion on sabbath. Let me help you out here though, because this is faulty logic.

First communion we see in scripture was on a Thursday. Second, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't your church celebrate the Eucharist at each mass service?

You are suggesting what Paul really meant for Gentiles was to go ahead and get circumcised...
...Just so long as they did it with Christ?

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I'm saying that Paul never taught for gentiles to not be circumcised. Paul taught that circumcision in an effort to be saved was futile. Honestly, without implying anything, can you find a verse where Paul says explicity that you don't have to be circumcised?

Where do you see that?

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Which part? That beasts represent kingdoms or that women represent the church? Either way, if you look at Daniel, you'll see the correlation between animals and kingdoms. And I believe you can take your pick of any number of old and new testament scriptures that refer to the church as a woman.

Stryder06 said:

We do communion on sabbath. Let me help you out here though, because this is faulty logic.

First communion we see in scripture was on a Thursday. Second, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't your church celebrate the Eucharist at each mass service?

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Every day of the week.

Mal 1,11
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts

The Mass offered "daily" came later if I'm correct Stryder....
...It started out initially every Sunday ( 1st day of the week ).
...As the texts I've shared demonstrate.

Stryder said:

I'm saying that Paul never taught for gentiles to not be circumcised. Paul taught that circumcision in an effort to be saved was futile. Honestly, without implying anything, can you find a verse where Paul says explicity that you don't have to be circumcised?

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What Paul says is if one get's circumcised thinking observing that old covenant sign is a command for Christians...
...Christ does NOTHING for that person.
...As that person has opted to worship DEATH - yoke of bondage etc.

The old Covenant was explicit that Jews were required to eat the Passover...
...Also explicit that people not circumcised could NOT participate in keeping Passover, sabbath.
...St. Paul said not to worry about getting circumcised, period.

Stryder said:

Which part? That beasts represent kingdoms or that women represent the church? Either way, if you look at Daniel, you'll see the correlation between animals and kingdoms. And I believe you can take your pick of any number of old and new testament scriptures that refer to the church as a woman.

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Where do you get that "Babylon" refers to apostate Christianity....
...I fully realize you believe I belong to "the" Apostate Church.
...Where do you get that in the Bible?

Pythons said:

Every day of the week.

Mal 1,11
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts

The Mass offered "daily" came later if I'm correct Stryder....
...It started out initially every Sunday ( 1st day of the week ).
...As the texts I've shared demonstrate.

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Thanks. So if Mass is offered daily, does that make each day holy? Secondly, the text doesn't establish a weekly habit, unless you believe you ought to also teach till the midnight hour . Like I was saying, Christ didn't establish the communion service on a sabbath. He did it on a Thursday. If I had to guess, I'd say the disciples most likely were keeping the Communion on that same day every year, despite what day it feel on. Just a guess though.

What Paul says is if one get's circumcised thinking observing that old covenant sign is a command for Christians...
...Christ does NOTHING for that person.
...As that person has opted to worship DEATH - yoke of bondage etc.

The old Covenant was explicit that Jews were required to eat the Passover...
...Also explicit that people not circumcised could NOT participate in keeping Passover, sabbath.
...St. Paul said not to worry about getting circumcised, period.

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Paul isn't teaching that Pythons. You keep missing the point. What was said and what was meant are two different things. You're looking at the letter of the message instead of looking at the heart of it, which is Christ. Paul was trying to get them to look to Christ.

Where do you get that "Babylon" refers to apostate Christianity....
...I fully realize you believe I belong to "the" Apostate Church.
...Where do you get that in the Bible?

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Python's your denomination, and who you belong two are two different things. Trust that I hope to see you in heaven. We get that Babylon refers to apostate Christianity through the symbolism taught in the book of Revelation. Think of it like this, Christ calls to His people to come out of Babylon. He most certainly isn't calling them to come out of a literaly city is He?

Stryder06 said:

Thanks. So if Mass is offered daily, does that make each day holy? Secondly, the text doesn't establish a weekly habit, unless you believe you ought to also teach till the midnight hour . Like I was saying, Christ didn't establish the communion service on a sabbath. He did it on a Thursday.

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Matthew 28,1 = 1st day of the week.

Mark 16,9 = 1st day of the week.

John 20,19 = 1st day of the week.

Acts 20,1 = 1st day of the week.

Acts 20, 7 = 1st day of the week.

1 Cor 16,2 = 1st day of the week.

The Lord "celebrated" it on a Sunday. Luke 24,35

That is a pattern to big to miss.









If I had to guess, I'd say the disciples most likely were keeping the Communion on that same day every year, despite what day it feel on. Just a guess though.


Paul isn't teaching that Pythons. You keep missing the point. What was said and what was meant are two different things. You're looking at the letter of the message instead of looking at the heart of it, which is Christ. Paul was trying to get them to look to Christ.




Python's your denomination, and who you belong two are two different things. Trust that I hope to see you in heaven. We get that Babylon refers to apostate Christianity through the symbolism taught in the book of Revelation. Think of it like this, Christ calls to His people to come out of Babylon. He most certainly isn't calling them to come out of a literaly city is He?[/quote]

Excuse me for jumping in on your dialog but by what reasoning does celebrating communion have to do with nullifying the Sabbath day and what it stands for? We are not explicitly told when to come together to remember Him.... it could be any day of the week. The fact that any denomination does it on their own day of worship is for convenience sake, not because it's commanded.

Too weak of an arguement to not obey a 'thus sayeth the Lord'. Show me where Christ himself taught His church to ignore the Sabbath.

Pythons said:

Matthew 28,1 = 1st day of the week.

Mark 16,9 = 1st day of the week.

John 20,19 = 1st day of the week.

Acts 20,1 = 1st day of the week.

Acts 20, 7 = 1st day of the week.

1 Cor 16,2 = 1st day of the week.

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What do any of these verses have to do with communion? The majority of those texts are talking about the resurrection morning.

The Lord "celebrated" it on a Sunday. Luke 24,35

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Really? The evening meal that Jesus had with the two disciples He was talking with on the road to emmaus was communion? Pythons, you can't be serious. That was dinner.

That is a pattern to big to miss.

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Except there is no pattern there. You continue to prove my point. You are implying these truths and saying they are factual, when in reality there is nothing there to substantiate your position. The pattern too hard to miss is the pattern established by God "...6 days shalt thou labor and do all they work, but the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God. In it thou shalt not do any work".