LDS LDS, The Father, and the Trinity

ToBeLoved · Apr 12, 2016

Super14LDS said:
Please do enlighten us where Satan came from and who created him?

He was an angel in heaven named Lucifer. He was one of the highest angels in heaven.

Then Lucifer rebelled against God because he wanted to be worshipped as God. When Lucifer sinned and rebelled, he was cast out of heaven and given the name statan or called the devil.

Super14LDS · Apr 12, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
God said descendants. He did not give a timeline. I don't understand what your problem is with descendants. Descendants is not your kids it could be great grand children. Someone in your bloodline.

de·scend·ant
dəˈsendənt/
noun
plural noun: descendants
a person, plant, or animal that is descended from a particular ancestor.

So how is that breaking the prophecy? It just doesn't make sense what you are saying.

Here is another example of the conditional nature of prophecy. ... Jesus’ promise to his twelve apostles: “Ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel” (Luke 19:28). This promise was made before Judas betrayed the Master and he was obviously included among those who would sit on the “twelve thrones.” How could Jesus have made such a promise to the one who would betray him, whom he termed “a devil” (John 6:70-71)? ...

http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/publications/the-nature-of-prophets-and-prophecy-2

Correction Matthew 19:28 not Luke.

Jane_Doe · Apr 12, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
He was an angel in heaven named Lucifer. He was one of the highest angels in heaven.

Then Lucifer rebelled against God because he wanted to be worshipped as God. When Lucifer sinned and rebelled, he was cast out of heaven and given the name statan or called the devil.

This fails to answer the question: "Please do enlighten us where Satan came from and who created him?"

ToBeLoved · Apr 12, 2016

Super14LDS said:
Here is another example of the conditional nature of prophecy. ... Jesus’ promise to his twelve apostles: “Ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel” (Luke 19:28). This promise was made before Judas betrayed the Master and he was obviously included among those who would sit on the “twelve thrones.” How could Jesus have made such a promise to the one who would betray him, whom he termed “a devil” (John 6:70-71)? ...

http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/publications/the-nature-of-prophets-and-prophecy-2

Correction Matthew 19:28 not Luke.

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

παλιγγενεσία, ας, ἡ, paliggenesia:
"birth, beginning") – properly, the coming of new birth because "born again"; regeneration.
3824 /paliggenesía ("renewal, rebirth") is used twice in the NT referring to: a) the re-birth of physical creation at Christ's return (Advent), which inaugurates His millennial kingdom (Mt 19:28; cf. Ro 8:18-25); and b) the re-birth all believers experience at conversion (Tit 3:5).

ἀκολουθέω, akoloutheó
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: akoloutheó
Phonetic Spelling: (ak-ol-oo-theh'-o)
Short Definition: I accompany, attend, follow
Definition: I accompany, attend, follow.

He is saying during the millenial reign those who have followed him. He does not say how many, only that there will be 12 thrones.

ToBeLoved · Apr 12, 2016

Jane_Doe said:
This fails to answer the question: "Please do enlighten us where Satan came from and who created him?"

It's in the Bible. Please feel free to enlighten yourself or the rest of us if you do not feel it answers the question. You have said you have read the entire Bible.

Jane_Doe · Apr 12, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
It's in the Bible. Please feel free to enlighten yourself or the rest of us if you do not feel it answers the question. You have said you have read the entire Bible.

Yes, and it points to the Father as being the Father of all.

But you seem to have other ideas, so I and Super14LDS were asking what they were.

ToBeLoved · Apr 12, 2016

Jane_Doe said:
Yes, and it points to the Father as being the Father of all.

But you seem to have other ideas, so I and Super14LDS were asking what they were.

So you believe that the angel Lucifer that rebelled and was cast out of heaven is of the same kind as Jesus Christ, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit and the Father?

Because all of those besides Lucifer are God.

Is that correct?

Jane_Doe · Apr 12, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
So you believe that the angel Lucifer that rebelled and was cast out of heaven is of the same kind as Jesus Christ, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit and the Father?

You'd have to elaborate on what you mean by "kind".

And please answer the question posed to you: "Please do enlighten us where Satan came from and who created him?"

ToBeLoved · Apr 12, 2016

Jane_Doe said:
You'd have to elaborate on what you mean by "kind".

And please answer the question posed to you: "Please do enlighten us where Satan came from and who created him?"

In the Bible, it is clear that each kind begets it's own kind. That is why when Noah was in the ark he had to take two, a male and a female of each kind of animal so they could reproduce after the flood.

In the Bible, Jesus is specifically referred to as the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON which means there is only one of His kind.

Therefore, if you are saying that Lucifer is literally the product of the Father and a relationship with what Mormons call a 'heavenly mother' who they also consider to be god, then no. The Father does not have a partner, nor is there any female god, nor could the Father have produced any physical offspring. Nor was Jesus, the Son of God produced through any reproduction on the part of the Father.

Does that answer your question and how the Bible see's it? I'm surprised you do not already know this.

Jane_Doe · Apr 12, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
In the Bible, it is clear that each kind begets it's own kind. That is why when Noah was in the ark he had to take two, a male and a female of each kind of animal so they could reproduce after the flood.

In the Bible, Jesus is specifically referred to as the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON which means there is only one of His kind.

Therefore, if you are saying that Lucifer is literally the product of the Father and a relationship with what Mormons call a 'heavenly mother' who they also consider to be god, then no. The Father does not have a partner, nor is there any female god, nor could the Father have produced any physical offspring. Nor was Jesus, the Son of God produced through any reproduction on the part of the Father.

Does that answer your question and how the Bible see's it? I'm surprised you do not already know this.

I'm tired of dealing with you NOT answering questions, rabbit trails, disrespect, not bothering to understand other people, and just slandering.

ToBeLoved · Apr 12, 2016

Jane_Doe said:
I'm tired of dealing with you NOT answering questions, rabbit trails, disrespect, not bothering to understand other people, and just slandering.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I typed up a very thorough answer to your question. I would hope that you would not ask a question that you did not want to know what the answer was.

To feel that a Biblical answer was going to help us understand other people I don't feel was looking at it to get a Biblical answer.

In my first sentence, I responded to the word 'kind' which is what you asked for clarification about. Do not blame me that you are not hearing the answers you hoped to hear.

Super14LDS · Apr 12, 2016

Who created Satan?

ToBeLoved · Apr 12, 2016

I hope that you all find the one true, Lord, Jesus Christ.

May God have mercy on us all.

I am leaving the Mormon threads and spending my time on those who are interested in learning about Jesus Christ.

~ peace

Revelationswon · Dec 5, 2016

jason_delisle said:
Then why does "Israel" mean "wrestled with God" and not "wrestled with a servant sent by God"? Did not Adam and Eve see God in the Garden of Eden?

Thank you! That is a great question brought up regarding Adam and Eve in the garden.

Rescued One · Dec 10, 2016

jason_delisle said:
Then why does "Israel" mean "wrestled with God" and not "wrestled with a servant sent by God"? Did not Adam and Eve see God in the Garden of Eden?

Did they see God or did they not see God? Which verse claims they saw God with their eyes? There is a reference to their hearing His voice* in the garden but no reference to their actually seeing God.
* Genesis 3:8-10

A few places in the Bible mention appearances of God to man:
A theophany is an explicit appearance of God to a person. Theophanies are relatively rare in the Bible, perhaps because it is very dangerous to be visited by the presence of God – we know from Exodus 33:20 that it is normally fatal to experience a theophany. In a sense the story of Jesus on Earth is one long theophany (John 14:9) but the term is generally reserved for dramatic, short-lived, super-natural experiences of God.
Theophany | Theopedia

Revelationswon · Dec 11, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
In the Bible, it is clear that each kind begets it's own kind. That is why when Noah was in the ark he had to take two, a male and a female of each kind of animal so they could reproduce after the flood.

In the Bible, Jesus is specifically referred to as the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON which means there is only one of His kind.

Therefore, if you are saying that Lucifer is literally the product of the Father and a relationship with what Mormons call a 'heavenly mother' who they also consider to be god, then no. The Father does not have a partner, nor is there any female god, nor could the Father have produced any physical offspring. Nor was Jesus, the Son of God produced through any reproduction on the part of the Father.

Does that answer your question and how the Bible see's it? I'm surprised you do not already know this.

Revelationswon · Dec 11, 2016

According to the bible, God is the father of ALL spirits. I think that one would have a difficult time to prove from the Bible that there is any other existent creator which had any ability whatsoever to create Lucifer...or anyone else for that matter.
One should always remember that one of God's most powerful gifts given too ALL is the gift of AGENCY. Each of us are agents unto ourselves to choose either good or evil. This eternal principle can exalt one to become "partakers of the "divine nature" or on the other hand become "a son of perdition" an thus sink to the lowest level. Lucifer was obviously at one time in heaven, but sinned against a rebelled against God's eternal plan (not ignorantly, but in full light and knowledge of heaven,s laws and God's plan of salvation for each of his spirit children. Lucifer by his rebellion became "the father of lies" and "accused his brethren day and night" and was cast out of heaven. He has no one to blame, but himself.

withwonderingawe · Dec 11, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
In the Bible, it is clear that each kind begets it's own kind. That is why when Noah was in the ark he had to take two, a male and a female of each kind of animal so they could reproduce after the flood.

In the Bible, Jesus is specifically referred to as the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON which means there is only one of His kind.

Therefore, if you are saying that Lucifer is literally the product of the Father and a relationship with what Mormons call a 'heavenly mother' who they also consider to be god, then no. The Father does not have a partner, nor is there any female god, nor could the Father have produced any physical offspring. Nor was Jesus, the Son of God produced through any reproduction on the part of the Father.

Does that answer your question and how the Bible see's it? I'm surprised you do not already know this.

John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus is the only begotten in the flesh but he is the firstborn of the spirit .

Heb 12
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? .....To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,...

Rev 3:14 These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Gen 1:3 The first words God the Father said was "Let there be light: and there was light".

John 8:12
12 ¶Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Barclay New Testament: “When the world began, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and the nature of the Word was the same as the nature of God.”

Our Heavenly Father has used the true story of the creation in Genius sort of like a parable which has many different meanings. The first chapter is the creation of the spirit world "before in was in the earth" and Jesus was the light, the firstborn the beginning of the creation of God. In Mormon theology Jesus has always been but there was a point in time when his light and intelligence (soul or essence using some Christian's wording) was placed within a spirit made of pure mater.

It says he is the firstborn not the only born. If there is a first there is a second and many more. He is the Father of spirits!

Rom 8
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ;

Rescued One · Dec 11, 2016

withwonderingawe said:
...
It says he is the firstborn not the only born. If there is a first there is a second and many more. He is the Father of spirits!

Rom 8
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ;

Colossians 1
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

We were created by Christ. We weren't born of heavenly parents.

In verse 17, we see that Christ is preeminent.

Genesis 41
51 Joseph named the firstborn Manasseh, “For,” he said, “God has made me forget all my trouble and all my father’s household.” 52 He named the second Ephraim, “For,” he said, “God has made me fruitful in the land of my affliction.”

Then in Jeremiah 31:9
9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

20 Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.

If Jesus is the firstborn, how can Ephraim also be the firstborn? Hint: Firstborn can refer to rank.

Romans 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Colossians 1:15, 18
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Hebrews 1:6
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Revelation 1:5
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

fatboys · Dec 14, 2016

Phoebe Ann said:
Colossians 1
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

We were created by Christ. We weren't born of heavenly parents.

In verse 17, we see that Christ is preeminent.

Genesis 41
51 Joseph named the firstborn Manasseh, “For,” he said, “God has made me forget all my trouble and all my father’s household.” 52 He named the second Ephraim, “For,” he said, “God has made me fruitful in the land of my affliction.”

Then in Jeremiah 31:9
9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

20 Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.

If Jesus is the firstborn, how can Ephraim also be the firstborn? Hint: Firstborn can refer to rank.

Romans 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Colossians 1:15, 18
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Hebrews 1:6
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Revelation 1:5
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Looks like the Bible is confused

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