LCMS Membership AbLaZeD?

LutheranHawkeye · Oct 2, 2008

The title says it all. We lost about 35 thousand for 2007, but released in the same day...Ablaze reaches 9 million people? I am rather fond of my Church, and 2.3 million is a 500,000 drop from about 30 years ago. At this rate in 100 years we won't have a Church. Sad day.

Tofferer · Oct 2, 2008

I look at the "Ablaze" information on the LCMS website. I was not thrilled. However, I sincerely doubt that "Ablaze" is the only reason for the numerical loss that you are lamenting. I suspect there are other issues that may also need to be looked and addressed. Some of these might include:

Evangelism: Are you reaching out into the community around you or are you just sitting in the pew and lamenting the loss of membership?

Revelancy of Scripture: You really need to show people how it is still important today and how to apply it in thier lives.

Language/Culture: Are there linguistic or cultural gaps that need to be reached across to bring people into the church?

Hospitality: How are you treating visitors? Are you warmly welcoming them or do you typically ignore them?

Just blaming one program or another isn't going to solve the problem. If anything, the blame game is just a good way to hide the real problem.

The things I've listed above I have seen in all types of churches. Those are things I'd want to look at if I wanted to reverse the effects of a declining membership.

MarkRohfrietsch · Oct 3, 2008

I was at a meeting last night with Rev. Mark Hartburg, director of Mission Services for the East Dist. of LCC. He presented the stats. on membership. It's the same picture here in Canada, with all denominations. The only ones which have grown are the Catholics, mainly due to immigration. The only solution is to do as our Lord commands, Evangelize.

LutheranHawkeye · Oct 3, 2008

I'm not trying to blame it on the Ablaze movement, but the theology is horrid. They don't count baptized babies as being part of the Ablaze movement, like if a family is converted and their baby is baptized. I just wish our declining membership was Ablaze's fault. Oh and btw we are like the only non Mainline Protestant group that is shrinking with them, so we cannot blame liberal theology...or can we?

MarkRohfrietsch · Oct 3, 2008

yup, in my opinion it is bad.

I wish we could blame our shrinking membership on something that we could just undo, or fix.

We must however be mindful that our Lord sometimes uses us to grow His Church, but how he chooses to grow the Church is his alone.

All we can do is pray for guidance, and avail ourselves at all times in all places to the Lord so that He can work through us.

Mark

NordicLutheran said:
I'm not trying to blame it on the Ablaze movement, but the theology is horrid. They don't count baptized babies as being part of the Ablaze movement, like if a family is converted and their baby is baptized. I just wish our declining membership was Ablaze's fault. Oh and btw we are like the only non Mainline Protestant group that is shrinking with them, so we cannot blame liberal theology...or can we?

DaRev · Oct 4, 2008

NordicLutheran said:
Oh and btw we are like the only non Mainline Protestant group that is shrinking with them, so we cannot blame liberal theology...or can we?

An awful lot of it has filtered into the LCMS in recent years.

KJmom · Oct 5, 2008

Wow what sad statistics

Tofferer · Oct 5, 2008

Bad theology has entered into all branches of the christian church, none are immune. We simply need to be vigilant and make plain as to what scripture says and to effectively explain why it is still important and how it relates to today. I only need to watch one episode of "COPS" to see why it is needful to abide by the ten commandments.

RadMan · Oct 5, 2008

Two weeks ago I my fiance' and I visited an LCMS church that had just started the Ablaze program. It sounded more like a pep rally than a church service. Not much Law and Gospel.

Studeclunker · Oct 5, 2008

The church I'm currently attending is participating in the programme. They have everything up on a screen to the left of the altar. There's 'Praise singers' instead of a traditional choir, and the pastor has a lot of supporting material and pictures during his sermon. As to the sermon, it's always sound doctrine, and mostly Law and Gospel. The thing I object to mostly, is the 'Creative Worship; ie: gerrymandering with the confessions and liturgy to reflect what he's preaching on that day. Often, the 'contemporary' service is more liturgical than the traditional! This is getting old and if things get any worse... well, I suppose there's the WELS church in Anderson.

I almost forgot, there's a Seminary student here that's... oh, I forget what it's called, he's working for the congregation as part of his degree. Anyway, he is being sent over to the big Pentecostal church here, Bethel, to study how they do their Children's Church. Oi, Vay!

LutheranChick · Oct 6, 2008

ELS, although already tiny, doesn't have a lot of growth. I am not sure if we are losing membership - probably more along the line of just not growing. Our churches in India have a higher population (around 25,000) than our entire Synod! (and they only have 3 pastors). I know that for one thing, it is because we stick solidly to our confessions. Some people (I heard this from members of an ELS church) think we should allow women to vote & have open communion, to attract more members. In other words, 'water it down' to make it more palatable to others. That is not the way to 'grow' a church, by any means.

Tofferer · Oct 6, 2008

You are correct. Watering down the truth isn't the path to church growth. It is the path to certain church closure. Best way to look and see the needs of the people in your community and then reach out to them according to thier needs. Hopefully they will reciprocate and come visit the church and hopefully continue to come.

Studeclunker · Oct 7, 2008

LutheranChick said:
<snip>In other words, 'water it down' to make it more palatable to others. That is not the way to 'grow' a church, by any means.

Tofferer said:
You are correct. Watering down the truth isn't the path to church growth. It is the path to certain church closure. Best way to look and see the needs of the people in your community and then reach out to them according to thier needs. Hopefully they will reciprocate and come visit the church and hopefully continue to come.

Well said, both of you. Sadly, there are people in many congregations who see these mega-churches and want to emulate them. The sad thing is that Pentecostalsim and the Lutheran faith don't mix. Yet, there are people who will insist on trying to do so. Your suggestion, Tofferer, to reach out by meeting the needs of the people, is just the ticket. Yet, how does one pull a congregation, enamored with the success of Pentecostalism, back from the edge and into a proper Lutheran alignment?

ctay · Oct 7, 2008

Of the 3 churches around I know about, the one in the Decatur is the only one that's shown growth, the pastor has only been there like 2 yrs. It went from something like 250 a week to an average of 400 a week in attendance. He's all out for numbers. They had voted to look for an assistant pastor, not sure if they started the process yet. Here's their website. http://stpaulsdec.com/

The one I went to, you know the pastor left, well the guy that went to the delto program is going to do another program and they'll keep him. He's a good christian person but his sermons aren't biblical. They've lost a bunch of people including me, I don't know how long it will last.

The other one hadn't grown, its been staying the same, maybe averaging 250 aweek, at one time in the 70's they were averaging 500. Its more biblical, use the hymnal, etc. Here's their website. It hadn't been updated much. http://www.stpaulsl.com/

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