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Funny, I was thinking the same thing, and I can't figure out why there would be an argument about this. Seems perfectly clear to me. Strong's defines apoleia as "utter destruction," suntrimma as "calamity, ruin, destruction," olethros as "ruin, destruction, death (primarily used of the destruction of the lust of the flesh)," and kathairesis as "destruction, demolition." These are the four words Paul uses for "destruction" in his epistles. They are not degrees of destruction so much as different and in some cases more emphatic words for saying "destroy" or "destruction.' No issue here that I see.I say destruction means destruction and death means death.
It isn't nonsense, if destruction means Nondestruction, then anything can mean the opposite of itself. Then nothing means anything.This statement from you about me is absolute nonsense:
Oz
This is a false statement. I read and teach koine Greek. I have a fairly good handle on Greek exegesis. Your accusations are false.You missed it:
olethros: from ollumi, to destroy.
But you show that words have no meaning for you. They only mean what you want them to mean.
I don't doubt that you believe olethros means destroy.This is a false statement. I read and teach koine Greek. I have a fairly good handle on Greek exegesis. Your accusations are false.
Bye, Oz
Thanks, that's good advice.perhaps some of you are assuming things that arn't true. maybe yall should open your heart to God, admit that you might be wrong, and ask him to lead you to the truth of the matter. that way, at least you know that you ASKED God what the truth is, and you didn't just assume what it is yourself.
One of the great Greek exegetes of all time, Dr. A. T. Robertson, in his Word Pictures in the New Testament: The Epistles of Paul, vol. 4, p. 44, gives his exegesis on the meaning of destruction, olethros (in 2 Thess. 1:9 we have the accusative case, olethron):I don't doubt that you believe olethros means destroy.
You just seem to not understand what destroy means.
So, Robertson’s understanding of “eternal destruction” is that it does not mean annihilation, but separation from the face of the Lord and the glory of his might. This will last for eternity, the woe that befell Antiochus Ephiphanes. For how long is this eternity – the coming age after this age.1:9 {Who} (hoitines). Qualitative use, such as. Vanishing in papyri though surviving in Paul (#1Co 3:17; Ro 1:25; Ga 4:26; Php 4:3). {Shall suffer punishment} (diken tisousin). Future active of old verb tinw, to pay penalty (diken, right, justice), here only in N.T., but apotinw once also to repay #Phm 1:19. In the papyri dike is used for a case or process in law. this is the regular phrase in classic writers for paying the penalty. {Eternal destruction} (oleqron aiwnion). Accusative case in apposition with diken (penalty). this phrase does not appear elsewhere in the N.T., but is in IV Macc. 10:15 ton aiwnion tou turannou olethron the eternal destruction of the tyrant (Antiochus Epiphanes). Destruction (cf. #1Th 5:3) does not mean here annihilation, but, as Paul proceeds to show, separation {from the face of the Lord} (apo proswpou tou kuriou) and from the {glory of his might} (kai apo tes doxes tes iscuos autou), an eternity of woe such as befell Antiochus Epiphanes. aiwnios in itself only means age-long and papyri and inscriptions give it in the weakened sense of a Caesar's life (Milligan), but Paul means by age-long {the coming age} in contrast with { this age}, as {eternal} as the New Testament knows how to make it. See on ¯Mt 25:46 for use of aiwnios both with zwen, life, and kolasin, punishment.
I am most definitely open to what you have stated, but opening my heart to God, admitting I could be wrong, and asking Him to lead me to the truth, does not exclude me from careful exegesis of the Greek text that God has given to us thorough his theopneustos (2 Tim. 3:16 - breathed out by God).perhaps some of you are assuming things that arn't true. maybe yall should open your heart to God, admit that you might be wrong, and ask him to lead you to the truth of the matter. that way, at least you know that you ASKED God what the truth is, and you didn't just assume what it is yourself.
I am most definitely open to what you have stated, but opening my heart to God, admitting I could be wrong, and asking Him to lead me to the truth, does not exclude me from careful exegesis of the Greek text that God has given to us thorough his theopneustos (2 Tim. 3:16 - breathed out by God).
In Christ, Oz
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