layers

[ashout]

would you say that a person is punished simply for not believing in christ, thus in hell everyone suffers the same, OR would you say that people are punished for their sins and people who sinned less get punished less?

 

[Tjc2496]

Well Hell in itself is not mentioned in the Bible. It usually refers though to what in the old testament is called Abaddon, or the Pit. This is the torture part of Hades or Sheol. One side of Hades is Paradise, which is most commonly known from what Jesus said on the cross to the thieve. Luke 16:19-31
“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side.[f] The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers[g]—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”
This speaks of a man who died and was on Torment side of Hades. There was a great chasm between him and Lazarus, however they could still converse. There was fire, because he was in anguish because of the flame. We only know of one department of the Pit for humans.
However, The angels in Genesis 6 that interbred with the woman, trying to ruin the woman's seed to prevent the Messiah coming. They are according to 2 peter 2:4 permanently confined to a part of Hades called Tartarus until they are cast into the lake of fire.
Also, There is the Abyss. This is the place where Satan will be bound for 1,000 years. This also is the place where Demons are bound temporarily after being cast out of a person (Luke 8:32). According to Luke the demons inside of Legion begged not to go there and be tortured.

There is also the eternal destination of the unsaved: The Lake of Fire/Gehenna
Revelation 20:10,14 state that Satan and all those in Hades will be cast into the lake of fire.
Revelations 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
This refers to a physical and spiritual punishment. It will be the final abode for Satan, the fallen angels, and all the unsaved. This verse refers to the lake burning with sulfur and fire.
Gehenna in the old testament referred to a ritual by the wicked that would sacrifice a human by burning them. This again is the sense that there will be burning sensation, the burning of sulfur makes a vulgar smell that makes you gag, It is in the absence of God. It will be completely dark as well.
It also says their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This could mean different levels based on sin. Other than that, we can't really say for sure other than speculation. I would assume the angels that attempted to ruin the seed of woman and Satan will receive the highest punishment.
I am certain there are a few verses that state false prophets will be accountable for them and everyone they deceived. I cannot find it though...

Sorry about the long spiel. I got most of my information from one of my friends who has studied the Bible and published many books. Arnold fruchtenbaum. He wrote a manuscript on the place of the dead. you can download it for free on a pdf at Ariel.org it is under discipleship and is called The Place of the Dead right towards the bottom. Thanks

 

[Robs07M6S]

would you say that a person is punished simply for not believing in christ, thus in hell everyone suffers the same, OR would you say that people are punished for their sins and people who sinned less get punished less?

The degrees of punishment as far as I know will be based on the amount of light that has been rejected and I believe this to be Biblical.

Mathew 10:14-15
If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

Luke 12:47-48
That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

 

[Timothew]

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

They will be punished with everlasting destruction

 

[ashout]

hey man for all we know people are laughing and playing and eating ice cream in hell. we literally know that little about what its going to be like.

 

[Robs07M6S]

hey man for all we know people are laughing and playing and eating ice cream in hell. we literally know that little about what its going to be like.

I sincerely hope that you are joking.

 

[ashout]

My point wasn't that people will be eating ice cream in hell, it was that God is merciful and kind, and we don't know what people deserve for their sins. do they deserve to be tortured heavily, or lightly? do the people in hell sit still, or do they move around? are they able to speak, or is their torture so awful that they cannot talk? WHAT IS HELL LIKE? you don't know.

 

[Robs07M6S]

do they deserve to be tortured heavily, or lightly? do the people in hell sit still, or do they move around? are they able to speak, or is their torture so awful that they cannot talk? WHAT IS HELL LIKE? you don't know.

I believe the Bible tells us why people go to hell and I also believe it tells us who will be punished more severly, read the passages that I posted up above.

As for not knowing what Hell is like you are right because I have never been there but the Bible gives us enough of a description of it to know that there will be weeping and nashing of teeth along with fire and brimestone. If that isnt vivid enough for you then I dont know what is.

 

[OzSpen]

would you say that a person is punished simply for not believing in christ, thus in hell everyone suffers the same, OR would you say that people are punished for their sins and people who sinned less get punished less?

ashout,

Are there degrees of punishment in hell?

1. Since God is “the righteous Judge” (2 Tim. 4:8), we would expect that sinners would be punished according to the extent of their sin. This is what the Bible affirms.

2. Matt. 10:14-15 states, “And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town” (ESV).

So it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for Sodom and Gomorrah than for those who do not welcome and listen to the apostles. This is an amazing statement: it is going to be fairer for those who committed sexual immorality in Sodom & Gomorrah than for those who rejected the gospel. What is this saying about punishment in hell?

3. A similar affirmation of degrees of punishment can be found in Matt. 11:21-24.

4. Luke 12:47-48 speaks of many blows and few blows:

“And that servant who knew his master’s will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more” (ESV).

The lesson is that where one has greater privileges, there will be greater responsibilities. J. C. Ryle warned: “The saddest road to hell is that which runs under the pulpit, past the Bible and through the midst of warnings and invitations.”

5. When Jesus criticised the religious leaders at his time on earth, he said that “such men will be punished more severely” (NIV, see Mark 12:38-40). This clearly indicates degrees of punishment in hell.

6. John’s vision of the judgment against “Babylon” (Rev. 18:6-7) indicates degrees of punishment in proportion to sin committed.

7. Other verses to contemplate include Mark 9:42 and Rom. 2:5. John Blanchard writes: “Every day the sinner lives, every selfish penny he makes, every unholy pleasure he enjoys, every ungrateful breath he takes, are storing up God’s anger against him.”

8. We need to remember that:

a. Only God’s kind of justice will be experienced in hell;
b. There will be degrees of punishment, but
c. That is nothing to gloat about because punishment in hell is eternal, no matter what it is like.

The seriousness of sin against the Almighty God is what sends unbelievers to hell. Degrees of punishment in hell do not lessen the eternal dimensions of hell and its suffering.

In Christ, Oz

 

[WinBySurrender]

would you say that a person is punished simply for not believing in christ, thus in hell everyone suffers the same, OR would you say that people are punished for their sins and people who sinned less get punished less?

I believe the Bible teaches that degrees of sin exist only in the life (i.e., a lie is does not bear the same earthly consequences as murder). But in hell, the only people there are those who did not trust in Christ as their Savior and Lord and punishment fits the sin, given the evidence presented us in this life.

God bless

 

[Robs07M6S]

I believe the Bible teaches that degrees of sin exist only in the life (i.e., a lie is does not bear the same earthly consequences as murder). But in hell, the only people there are those who did not trust in Christ as their Savior and Lord and punishment fits the sin, given the evidence presented us in this life.

God bless

Its true that all unbelievers will be in Hell but its also true that the one whom was shown the greater amount of light will face a more severe punishment than the one who perhaps never heard the gospel message at all. The more light shown the more accountable you are going to be held before God, this is Biblical.

 

[Timothew]

The wages of sin is death. One can't be more dead than another.

 

[WinBySurrender]

Its true that all unbelievers will be in Hell but its also true that the one whom was shown the greater amount of light will face a more severe punishment than the one who perhaps never heard the gospel message at all. The more light shown the more accountable you are going to be held before God, this is Biblical.

Interesting. Can you cite a passage to that effect? Thanks

God bless

 

[Robs07M6S]

Interesting. Can you cite a passage to that effect? Thanks

God bless

I already did on the first page.

 

[Robs07M6S]

The wages of sin is death. One can't be more dead than another.

Let me guess, total annihilation right?

 

[Robs07M6S]

Mathew 10:14-15
If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.

The gospel has been preached and rejected by its listener. This persons condemnation will be greater than the one who never heard.

I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

That is the point to be taken, the one with the greater knowledge and light who turned around and rejected it will face greater judgement.


Luke 12:47-48
That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

 

[Timothew]

Let me guess, total annihilation right?

I didn't say that.

Death means to be dead, not alive, not conscious.
The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our lord. According to this there are only 2 states.
Eternal life in Christ or death.

 

[WinBySurrender]

Mathew 10:14-15
If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

Luke 12:47-48
That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

I believe both refer to an earthly judgment, as there is nothing I read in the Bible that would support differing levels of punishment in hell. Note particularly your second passage, which by the use of the phrase "his Master's will" indicates it is pertinent to believers. As for the Matt 10 passage, earthly consequences come before eternal judgment -- and cities are not judged eternally, only people. True, the Greek word polis as translated "cities" (or in your version, "towns") can refer to the people of the city, but the context here, given the surrounding verses, does not refer to the indigenous population.

 

[Robs07M6S]

I didn't say that.

Death means to be dead, not alive, not conscious.
The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our lord. According to this there are only 2 states.
Eternal life in Christ or death.

I know you didnt come out and blatently state that but if I remember correctly it is what you support, regardless of the label.

 

[Robs07M6S]

I believe both refer to an earthly judgment, as there is nothing I read in the Bible that would support differing levels of punishment in hell. Note particularly your second passage, which by the use of the phrase "his Master's will" indicates it is pertinent to believers. As for the Matt 10 passage, earthly consequences come before eternal judgment -- and cities are not judged eternally, only people. True, the Greek word polis as translated "cities" (or in your version, "towns") can refer to the people of the city, but the context here, given the surrounding verses, does not refer to the indigent population.

Thank you, im always open for correction as I am still learning and even struggle with assurance of my own salvation.