Latter Rain?

[GraceAnn2]

Simply please--What is it? Do all believers accept it as true?

 

[Mr Dave]

I didn't just look up what it was...

From what I gather, it generally refers these days to a movement, post-war which emerged in some Pentecostal circles. Some people felt that pentecostalism was becoming stagnant and needed some refreshing. This movement began to focus on the spiritual elements of pentecostalism which had energised the movement from the beginning; personal prophecy and a strong focus on 'the end times'. The original pentecostal experience in Acts was decribed as the Former rain, and this movement called itself the Latter rain believing in a new outpouring of the Holy Spirit which would unite all believers and bring about the second coming of Christ.

As is seen in many Charismatic churches today (which it seems are mostly descended from the Latter Rain movement) there is an emphasis on imparting the Holy Spirit to people through laying on of hands and so is a prominent feature of its ministry.

It has had some controversy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latter_Rain_(post–World_War_II_movement)#Controversies


If Christians don't go along with it though, it's probably due to the fact that it is an off-shoot movement of pentecostalism which caused issues within some Pentecostal movements itself. It holds to theologies which therefore don't feature in many threads of mainstream Christianity; it's emphasis on the Baptism on the Holy Spirit through laying on of hands, and it's emphasis on bringing about the Second Coming are views which are foreign to many mainstream Christians.

 

[GraceAnn2]

wow--that was a wonderful explanation Mr. Dave. Thanks!
>>unite all believers
I would have a hunch that this pure unity will not happen until eternity since people tend to cling to their own views and Christ would have us to be ONE in Him (at least this is what I gather from my little understanding of His desires.
The Holy Spirit probably works differently in each of us to bring glory to God.
I have seen people acting wild on TV (Benny somebody) with laying on of hands. It is not clear to me how much is real and what is for show. I care not to judge until I have knowlege of scripture to back my beliefs. That is a journey that I am just starting now and any guidance is appreciated.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Latter Rain?

Simply please--What is it? Do all believers accept it as true?

I have not really studied on it that much, but I do know a favorite Christian commentator of mine was supposedly in that movement and even labeled an "anti-semite" because of his views.
It could imply a covenantle meaning? You can also do a googles search on "latter rain bible". Hope this helps

NKJV) James 5:7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See [how] the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain.

J Preston Eby, Eby minstry, Eby heresies, Eby writings, Preston Eby, Manifest Sons of God heresy, Latter Rain heresy

(the Latter Rain movement is) " a people, being prepared for the coming THIRD OUTPOURING which shall finally bring the FULLNESS, a company of overcoming sons of God who have come to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ to actually dethrone Satan, casting him out of the heavenlies, and finally binding him in the earthlies, bringing the hope of deliverance and life to all the families of the earth.
This third great work of the Spirit shall usher a people into full redemption--free from the curse, sin, sickness, death and carnality." J. Preston Eby - as quoted in Latter Rain by Richard Riss, (Mississauga, Ont:Honeycomb Visual Productions), 1987, pp. 80-81​

The anti-semitic MSOG movement that Eby claims to govern his ministry incorrectly and boldly appropriates the title "elect" from that of the remnant of Israel described during the Tribulation's Time of Jacob's Trouble, and applies it to themselves in true Replacement Theology fashion.
Eby's writing ministry includes a monthly message titled Kingdom Bible Studies Table of Contents
as well as a number of booklets on various subjects. We discuss this subject below.

 

[GraceAnn2]

>>a company of overcoming sons of God who have come to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ to actually dethrone Satan,

I would wonder if God alone has the power to dethrone Satan? Does He chain Satan somewhere or sometime in scripture?

 

[Mr Dave]

wow--that was a wonderful explanation Mr. Dave. Thanks!
>>unite all believers
I would have a hunch that this pure unity will not happen until eternity since people tend to cling to their own views and Christ would have us to be ONE in Him (at least this is what I gather from my little understanding of His desires.
The Holy Spirit probably works differently in each of us to bring glory to God.
I have seen people acting wild on TV (Benny somebody) with laying on of hands. It is not clear to me how much is real and what is for show. I care not to judge until I have knowlege of scripture to back my beliefs. That is a journey that I am just starting now and any guidance is appreciated.

Not a problem, glad to help

I tend to agree with what you say about full unity. Also, yeah the HS works differently through different people. That's be Benny Hinn that you mention. I wouldn't class myself amongst his supporters I'm sceptical of how much is truly Holy Spirit driven.

All the best with your journey. Ask away with whatever questions you may have

 

[Mr Dave]

>>a company of overcoming sons of God who have come to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ to actually dethrone Satan,

I would wonder if God alone has the power to dethrone Satan? Does He chain Satan somewhere or sometime in scripture?

I'm tempted to hand over to LittleLambofJesus here, who has an exceptional knowledge of Revelation (no pressure or anything LLOJ ), but the opening of Revelation 20 is the passage you seem to have in mind

20Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and locked and sealed it over him, so that he would deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be let out for a little while.

 

[GraceAnn2]

>>Ask away with whatever questions you may have

lol--oh my goodness, Mr.Dave, my ignorance will surely show. Sometimes it is better to keep ones mouth shut.

 

[Mr Dave]

>>Ask away with whatever questions you may have

lol--oh my goodness, Mr.Dave, my ignorance will surely show. Sometimes it is better to keep ones mouth shut.

 

[GraceAnn2]

I am not quite ready for revelation yet. I need to understand the issues of being saved first.

 

[Mr Dave]

I am not quite ready for revelation yet. I need to understand the issues of being saved first.

Priorities, wise

Depends what you know already.
Unfortunately salvation is probably one of the most important topics but the one which shows the divisions in Christianity the most.

Ephesians 2:8-9 are two famous verses regarding salvation;

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast."

These are the verses used widely within Protestantism as a basis for the belief that we are saved by grace (Sola Gratia) and that there is nothing we can do to earn salvation.

This was in contrast to the Roman Catholic belief that salvation required baptism and other works (amongst other things from the 16th Century whereby people could earn/pay to reduce the time spent in purgatory).



To try and sum up what is necessary for salvation which (I believe) all Christians would adhere to (despite other such disagreements, see here for a thrilling read - History of Calvinist–Arminian debate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), would be what is mentioned in Acts 2:38

Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

It might be worth making a couple of threads in different denominations - Christian Communities - Christian Forums and asking how that denomination views salvation just because there would be some different responses.

 

[GraceAnn2]

Mr. Dave,
I am not quite ready to go into Christian forum threads and post because I can get so easily confused with a myriad of opinions. Just getting my feet wet here first before going into deeper waters, because in reality I have never learned how to swim. Drowning would be easy for me.
I was sort of thinking that Jesus saves those who believe in Him and that it must happen purely by His grace or we would all be doomed. As for baptism, do you think it is a part of the saving act or just a symbol of ones dying to self and living in Christ? Or is it both? Help me out here if possible Mr. Dave--I am totally new and open to pondering this unknown aspect.

 

[God's Word]

GraceAnn2: I know that your question wasn't directed to me, but, earlier today, I briefly addressed the significance of water baptism with another poster in this section of the forum. If you'd like to, then you can read the post here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7573932-2/#post57969348

Should you read it, it might do you well to also read my previous comments to that poster on the same thread in relation to being "born again" so that my comments hopefully make more sense. Thanks.

 

[GraceAnn2]

Thanks--will go check that out.

 

[Mr Dave]

Mr. Dave,
I am not quite ready to go into Christian forum threads and post because I can get so easily confused with a myriad of opinions. Just getting my feet wet here first before going into deeper waters, because in reality I have never learned how to swim. Drowning would be easy for me.

That's fine. Stay around here for now if you prefer

I was sort of thinking that Jesus saves those who believe in Him and that it must happen purely by His grace or we would all be doomed.

Yep.

As for baptism, do you think it is a part of the saving act or just a symbol of ones dying to self and living in Christ? Or is it both? Help me out here if possible Mr. Dave--I am totally new and open to pondering this unknown aspect.

Somewhere in between. Baptism is symbolic of our dying to self and rising in Christ by the cleansing of self and cleansing of our sin. Baptism firmly places us within the people of God and claims for us God's promised salvation (God's grace provides salvation and baptism is a way of making shown our acceptance of this salvation).

I also come from a traditional stream of Christianity (Methodism) which believes that Baptism (as well as Holy Communion) is a sacrament (other Christians who take this view are Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans etc...). If you'll forgive for quoting from the Methodist Catechism for a concise definition of sacrament;

The sacraments disclose and proclaim what god has done for the world in Jesus Christ, and convey its benefits to the community of believers. They are also signs of our allegiance to God. Protestant churches recognise two sacraments: baptism and the Lord's Supper.

What this doesn't explicitely say about sacraments is that they are an outward sign of inwardly imparted grace. In baptism, the outward sign is the act with water whilst inwardly by god's grace the Holy Spirit cleanses us. Soooooooo, although baptism doesn't save us, it is part of the process of salvation (which comprises also justification (being put right before God) and Sanctification (being made Holy by the Holy Spirit)). Salvation doesn't require baptism as a pre-requisite, but baptism does work within the act of being saved. Hope I've made sense there

 

[GraceAnn2]

>>"Somewhere in between. Baptism is symbolic of our dying to self and rising in Christ by the cleansing of self and cleansing of our sin. Baptism firmly places us within the people of God and claims for us God's promised salvation (God's grace provides salvation and baptism is a way of making shown our acceptance of this salvation).

I also come from a traditional stream of Christianity (Methodism) which believes that Baptism (as well as Holy Communion) is a sacrament (other Christians who take this view are Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans etc...). If you'll forgive for quoting from the Methodist Catechism for a concise definition of sacrament;

The sacraments disclose and proclaim what god has done for the world in Jesus Christ, and convey its benefits to the community of believers. They are also signs of our allegiance to God. Protestant churches recognise two sacraments: baptism and the Lord's Supper.
​

What this doesn't explicitely say about sacraments is that they are an outward sign of inwardly imparted grace. In baptism, the outward sign is the act with water whilst inwardly by god's grace the Holy Spirit cleanses us. Soooooooo, although baptism doesn't save us, it is part of the process of salvation (which comprises also justification (being put right before God) and Sanctification (being made Holy by the Holy Spirit)). Salvation doesn't require baptism as a pre-requisite, but baptism does work within the act of being saved. Hope I've made sense there"

Jeepers this was a very good read and well explained!! If only I was smart enough to understand other things as well as I did this post, Mr.Dave.