Lama Dafka Anee? WHy Me?

[JewishHeart]

Has anybody read Yakov Damkani's book "Why Me?" What thinks you? I know Yakov as a personal friend, so be careful what you say( just jokin promise i wont tell him anything). Another reccomended book is " Israel, the Church, and the Last Days" by Dan Juster and Asher Intrater.

 

[rooster]

"Why Me" is a very goodl book.
Dreadfully straightforward and honestly raw about his personal testimony. It also presents the messianic faith and the messiah which was seamlessly inbedded in his narration about how he got to the point where he believed in Yeshua and his ministry thereafter.
A lot of good snapshots(both literary and pictoral) of the state of the believers in Israel.

Very good book, one that i would recommend to anybody

 

[Toney]

Very good book, one that i would recommend to anybody

I haven't read it and probably won't. I did check the net to learn something about the author, Mr. Yaakov Damkani. This piece refers to him as a "notorious missionary" in Jaffa.

Personally, I have a huge problem with Christian missionary activity in Israel. Jews should become faithful to Torah, not to Christ. I think Christian evangelism to Jews is terribly misguided. Just my opinion.

 

[simchat_torah]

somehow I figured that's what this would boil down to. I did a quick google on the name as well and found a few missionary websites in Israel.

Although I will remain silent on my opinion, I will say that this is what I expected before I even did the google.

 

[rooster]

I haven't read it and probably won't. I did check the net to learn something about the author, Mr. Yaakov Damkani. This piece refers to him as a "notorious missionary" in Jaffa.

Personally, I have a huge problem with Christian missionary activity in Israel. Jews should become faithful to Torah, not to Christ. I think Christian evangelism to Jews is terribly misguided. Just my opinion.

"to the jews first"
Heh heh, quite a few of those "notorious missionaries" have been to my church. Some dubious, asking only for money; but others came with sincerity, love and above all, concern, others such as Damkani.
I would still recommend the book, but perhaps not to everybody now.

Perhaps you should listen to the guy himself
http://www.trumpetofsalvation.com/ministry_profile.htm

 

[rooster]

And of course he is notorious, he gets punched, kicked, have bricks thrown at him for what he believe is necessary.

I know this issue of whether Jews need to believe in Messiah can be quite sensitive around here, i myself am not settle on this issue(i do tend to a particular side) but this guy has a heart for His people, with conviction from an origin that is very hard to doubt.

 

[Henaynei]

What ever else he may be, Ya'akov Damkani is Jewish

 

[JewishHeart]

Yaakov is also Israeli. I would like to say for those who don't believe in Jewish evangelism,

1.) You have no NT premise ( you would have to do alot to convince me that Paul did not evangelize to the Bereans, to the synagogues he went to first, that he was stoned for reading Torah and not for evangelizing, or that Peter did not evangelize to the Jews in Acts 2 or Romans 1 says the gospel is to the Jew first) and

2.) No matter what has been done in the past or present (and alot of stupid things have been done in the name of Yeshua) this doesn't change the fact that Jewish people need Yeshua and we need to tell them.

3.) Don't you give me your "christian" evangelism mockery to messianic Jews who believe in evangelism. The forum board has said this once and will say it again. There are many forms of messianic Judaism and just because a messianic Jew believes in evangelism does not make him "christian." I will not get offended, but this is an insult to other messianics who believe this way. So don't use the word "christian" missionary to those who claim to be messianic like JOhnathon Bernis or Yakov Damkani. To say so is self-stripping their messianic claim and you have no right.Who made you appointer of who to call messianic and christian? I would consider calling these people christian "flaming".

4.) Evangelism is the hearbeat of G-d, and those who are close to G-d know this. Burden is a trait of people who have been in the presence of G-d. Judgement and condemning is not a trait of those who have been close to G-d, but evangelizing with tears is for those who know what intamacy with G-d is.

5.) If we do not help our brothers see Yeshua and take off their blinders, their blood is on our hands. Simchat and Toney, this is a serious issue and in the great day of judgement we will be held accountable for showing our fellow christians Jewish Roots and showing our fellow Jewish brothers and sisters Yeshua.

6.) Contrary to opinion, the gospel is not wearing tefillin, eating kosher, keeping the feasts, etc. although these things are great. The gospel is Yeshua and Him crucified and raised from the dead !

 

[JewishHeart]

Toney said

Personally, I have a huge problem with Christian missionary activity in Israel. Jews should become faithful to Torah, not to Christ. I think Christian evangelism to Jews is terribly misguided.

Toney, Mr Damkani is a messianic...not a christian. There are not many christian missionary activities in Israel. Most christians evangelize to Arabs or help the Jewish poor ( the christian embassy makes you sign a contract to not evangelize if you work for them as do many other christian ministries)....they give evangelism as the job for messianics to do.

 

[simchat_torah]

1.) You have no NT premise ( you would have to do alot to convince me that Paul did not evangelize to the Bereans, to the synagogues he went to first, that he was stoned for reading Torah and not for evangelizing, or that Peter did not evangelize to the Jews in Acts 2 or Romans 1 says the gospel is to the Jew first) and

I'm not arguing against evangelism, but I firmly believe that the "type" of evangelism that christianity presents is not biblical.

2.) No matter what has been done in the past or present (and alot of stupid things have been done in the name of Yeshua) this doesn't change the fact that Jewish people need Yeshua and we need to tell them.

I don't think anyone used this as an argument?

3.) Don't you give me your "christian" evangelism mockery to messianic Jews who believe in evangelism. The forum board has said this once and will say it again. There are many forms of messianic Judaism and just because a messianic Jew believes in evangelism does not make him "christian." I will not get offended, but this is an insult to other messianics who believe this way. So don't use the word "christian" missionary to those who claim to be messianic like JOhnathon Bernis or Yakov Damkani. To say so is self-stripping their messianic claim and you have no right.Who made you appointer of who to call messianic and christian? I would consider calling these people christian "flaming".

Wow JH, that's a lot of emotion there
I think there is a drastic difference between christian evangelism and what Sha'ul did. Making a comparison between how the christian church has evangelized, how messianic judaism has historically evangelized, and how Sha'ul evangelized is a very valid thing.

4.) Evangelism is the hearbeat of G-d, and those who are close to G-d know this. Burden is a trait of people who have been in the presence of G-d. Judgement and condemning is not a trait of those who have been close to G-d, but evangelizing with tears is for those who know what intamacy with G-d is.

I believe that sharing the truths of Elohim is near and dear to his heart. However, what has historically taken place not only isn't biblical evangelism, but is anti-truth.

5.) If we do not help our brothers see Yeshua and take off their blinders, their blood is on our hands. Simchat and Toney, this is a serious issue and in the great day of judgement we will be held accountable for showing our fellow christians Jewish Roots and showing our fellow Jewish brothers and sisters Yeshua.

Now we are getting to the heart of the matter
The terms "gospel", "disciple", etc... were all around well before the first century. To redefine these terms outside of the Jewish context leads us to historical christian evangelism. This is where we will diverge our paths. Who will be judged? According to what standards will they be judged?
We differ on what the standards are. You argue that the standards were redefined in the first century and that the terms that were commonly used (gospel, disciple, etc) had their definitions tossed out the window and now these new christian definitions are what apply. I tend to think these Jewish authors, who had a Jewish audience, used common Jewish phrases and terminology when they wrote letters to each other.

6.) Contrary to opinion, the gospel is not wearing tefillin, eating kosher, keeping the feasts, etc. although these things are great. The gospel is Yeshua and Him crucified and raised from the dead !

I don't think I've even heard this opinion, though it is mine
The term "gospel" was used by Jews in first century Judaism when sharing the light of the Torah.

If you toss out the Jewish mindset when evaluating scripture you can make it mean anything you want.

shalom,
yafet

 

[simchat_torah]

I would like to say for those who don't believe in Jewish evangelism,

I do believe in Jewish evangelism
I believe in Jewish evangelism in the same way the Chabad do! Of course, I know what you really meant... christian evangelism to the Jews... and I'm just being coy with you

With a sly smile,
Yafet

 

[simchat_torah]

Its rather sad actually... many people have an entirely different 'new testament' because they have redefined all of these terms that the authors used. Many want to redefine the new testament outside of the context of Judaism according to christianity's rules and regulations.

It ends up losing its message... its more than a change of flavor, but an entirely different message.


With a heavy heart,
yafet

 

[JewishHeart]

Ok , forget gospel or disciple... the Jewish people need Yeshua, plain and simple.

 

[JewishHeart]

simchat,

dafka i try to read the NT in a Jewish-Hebraic context and try to not Hellenize anything, but at the same time I want to take the author at face value. When Paul says he knows nothing but Messiah crucified, I take him at his word.

 

[JewishHeart]

I have a heavy heart to think that there are messianics out there who don't believe in sharing Yeshua to the Jewish people.

 

[simchat_torah]

Ok , forget gospel or disciple... the Jewish people need Yeshua, plain and simple.

"I have come for the sick and not the healthy..."

Who were the healthy?


"I have come for the lost sheep of Israel..."

Who wasn't a part of the lost sheep? Y'shua makes an analogy of leaving the flock of sheep in the pin while going after the stray... who were the sheep left in the pin?


Finally... no, I don't think I will forget what the NT texts say or their context (judaism). I really don't want to go reinventing the wheel as christianity has so flagrantly done in the past. Maybe its just me, but I'm tired of creating new foundation after new foundation. I'm settling myself firmly upon the rock solid truth of the Torah. It was the standard we judged the prophets, it is the yardstick we measure up Y'shua's messiahship against, and it is the standard HaShem uses to measure (us) the Jewish people. Frankly, I'm gonna stick with this firm foundation and not reinvent a new religion.

maybe its just me... but I'm tired of these christian antics that are used to create something new to excuse the Jewish teachings of the apostles and disciples.

shalom and shalom,
yafet

 

[simchat_torah]

[quote]I have a heavy heart to think that there are messianics out there who don't believe in sharing Yeshua to the Jewish people.[/quote]I'm not against sharing who Y'shua was/is. However, I'm not going to redifine gospel.

dafka i try to read the NT in a Jewish-Hebraic context and try to not Hellenize anything, but at the same time I want to take the author at face value. When Paul says he knows nothing but Messiah crucified, I take him at his word.

Sha'ul also said:
The law is holy righteous and good.

He made many other statements. I'm not going to build my entire theology upon random statements, but rather upon the context of his life and his mission. While he did proclaim Y'shua as HaMoshiach, he also taught how to walk, and that's according to the Torah. He went so far as to set an example in that he made sacrafices in the Temple which got him captured. He declared many messages JH. We need to take it all into context.

shalom,
yafet

 

[simchat_torah]

I have a heavy heart to think that there are messianics out there who don't believe in sharing Yeshua to the Jewish people.

I also have to question who Y'shua was to be shared with? Wasn't it the lost sheep of Israel? Wasn't it the sick?

Why are we forcing this message down the throats of those who are healthy and have remained a part of the flock within the sheep-pin?

-yafet

 

[JewishHeart]

you have created a funny theology off the whole sick and healthy verse. I personally believe Yeshua was being sarcastic.

 

[JewishHeart]

the theme of torah is yeshua more than the theme of yeshua is torah ( I am not preaching against Torah... I preach wholeheartedly that we need to follow Torah and that the jewish believers are called to keep feasts, keep kosher, etc.)