Laboratory Meat

[Mystman]

The Colbert Report had an item on meat grown in petri dishes. It's something that I've thought about before... it brings a number of ethical issues.

On the one hand, by producing meat in a petri dish, you have a number of advantages:
- A slab of muscle-tissue doesn't have a conscious. Most cows/pigs, and maybe chickens aren't exactly enjoying themselves in the bio-industry. And after that miserable life, they get slaughtered. Just growing the meat without the brain attached removes this problem.
- There is potential for a higher energy efficiency. Producing meat costs an enormous amount of clean water and food. A living cow has a lot of processes going on that are unnecessary for the production of the meat, and that thus waste those resources. An example would be the brain; functioning brains cost a LOT of resources to maintain, but we humans don't see any benefit from the cow thinking "damn, my life sucks".

On the other hand, petri dish meat is certainly a very artificial way to produce food, and a weird way to treat (parts of..) living beings. But I would personally respond to such criticisms with "well, the way how we grow and treat pigs in the bioindustry is also anything but normal".

Because of that, I'm personally very much in favor of petri dish meat, and would happily start buying it as soon as it becomes available. I'd even be happy to help with the research towards it if a related research position is available to me when I'm ready to begin on my PhD.

How do others feel about this? Any other ethical arguments that play a role in this situation?

 

[Cabal]

How much will it cost? And will it just taste like agar?

 

[Psudopod]

I can't wait for vat meat

I understand the biggest problem at the moment is getting more that a sheet 1 cell thick (due to the lack of blood vessels etc).

 

[Cabal]

I can't wait for vat meat

I understand the biggest problem at the moment is getting more that a sheet 1 cell thick (due to the lack of blood vessels etc).

Instant steak carpaccio?

 

[Mystman]

How much will it cost? And will it just taste like agar?

Well, you need less resources (food/water) but more machinery... the costs would probably be high when the technology is new and all the machinery needs to be purchased. When it's up and running, the dramatically reduced resource costs would probably lead to meat that's just as cheap if not cheaper than "traditionally" produced meat.

The taste is just a question of how closely the production process mimics the natural surroundings of muscles. If it's produced by having muscles in a petridish, blood (with all the right nutrients etc) flowing through the dish and periodic electrical shocks stimulating the contraction of the muscle, I don't see why the meat wouldn't taste just the same as normal meat.

 

[Ectezus]

I just saw the Report. Gotta love that Colbert.

I think the shmeat has a lot of potential.
Although we're probably going towards pills anyway. The amount of garbage we produce everyday is ridiculous. All the nutrients you need can be in pill form if you want too.

I imagine the future something like:
You go to a specialized doctor every X months/year who determines with some bio scanner what kind of nutrients your body needs and in what exact quantity. Then you get a prescription and can get the appropriate pills to go with that.

There is the issue of hunger feeling, which is nothing more than a signal of how full your stomach is. Either we have to suppress this silly feeling with a lot of cheap stomach filling (some kind of foam) that has no nutritional value but it allows us to eat pills while keeping our stomachs natural. Or just add a chemical to the pill that blocks the hunger signals since they aren't really doing their job (you got enough nutrients after all). Another option is an stomach operation but that probably wouldn't be a good idea.

It will be a long time before we actually do this. But slaying a cow and eating part of his body is sooo yesterday. It's not like we're going to do that in space...

- Ectezus

 

[Mystman]

Although we're probably going towards pills anyway. The amount of garbage we produce everyday is ridiculous. All the nutrients you need can be in pill form if you want too.

Hmm... that sounds like a dystopian future to me.

Eating stuff is always a highlight of my day. To remove that very primal experience just to be able to cram more people on this planet (and/or in a spaceship -_-) is very dehumanizing imho.

I'd rather have a planet inhabited by a billion people, who all live very 'human' lives, than a planet inhabited by 20 billion people who all live lives that are constricted and artificial just to be able to keep everyone alive.

 

[Belk]

The Colbert Report had an item on meat grown in petri dishes. It's something that I've thought about before... it brings a number of ethical issues.

On the one hand, by producing meat in a petri dish, you have a number of advantages:
- A slab of muscle-tissue doesn't have a conscious. Most cows/pigs, and maybe chickens aren't exactly enjoying themselves in the bio-industry. And after that miserable life, they get slaughtered. Just growing the meat without the brain attached removes this problem.
- There is potential for a higher energy efficiency. Producing meat costs an enormous amount of clean water and food. A living cow has a lot of processes going on that are unnecessary for the production of the meat, and that thus waste those resources. An example would be the brain; functioning brains cost a LOT of resources to maintain, but we humans don't see any benefit from the cow thinking "damn, my life sucks".

On the other hand, petri dish meat is certainly a very artificial way to produce food, and a weird way to treat (parts of..) living beings. But I would personally respond to such criticisms with "well, the way how we grow and treat pigs in the bioindustry is also anything but normal".

Because of that, I'm personally very much in favor of petri dish meat, and would happily start buying it as soon as it becomes available. I'd even be happy to help with the research towards it if a related research position is available to me when I'm ready to begin on my PhD.

How do others feel about this? Any other ethical arguments that play a role in this situation?

Being a meataholic who feels guilty about many moral and environmental issues our raising of animals for slaughter bring up, I look forward to the day I can buy this product.

 

[mpok1519]

i want meat that was making noises at some time. like moo, or cluck.

 

[Ectezus]

Hmm... that sounds like a dystopian future to me.

Eating stuff is always a highlight of my day. To remove that very primal experience just to be able to cram more people on this planet (and/or in a spaceship -_-) is very dehumanizing imho.

I'd rather have a planet inhabited by a billion people, who all live very 'human' lives, than a planet inhabited by 20 billion people who all live lives that are constricted and artificial just to be able to keep everyone alive.

Yeah, I understand there is more satisfaction to eating that just suppressing the hunger feeling.
Although I do consider it to be the main reason. If I'm really full I don't want anything else, not even sweets or something. (Sure there's always room for one more of course, but it's not necessarily a desire)

The pills I suggested could easily come combined with a hunger suppressing substance and something that mimics the way food taste. It will be possible to recreate the exact taste of food. Although I admit certain other things like texture also play an important role.

The point however is that our current way of feeding the planet would be insane once we've got a better alternative. Just imagine all the garbage you throw out each day, and what is needed to create it in the first place, all the animal suffering and space it takes.

I know pills don't seem like a beautiful future. In fact all this suppressing or mimicking of feelings sounds rather dangerous. I agree, but when you think about it with an logical point of view it really makes sense.
Less garbage, less animal suffering, more time for other things and probably most important: getting the exact amount of nutrients your body needs would increase human health quite a lot.

My guess is that this scenario I'm sketching won't happen until we actually have space colonies. Then the 'food pill' industry will really take off (literally) and humans on earth will probably follow quite soon once they become aware of the benefits.

- Ectezus

 

[Braunwyn]

The Colbert Report had an item on meat grown in petri dishes. It's something that I've thought about before... it brings a number of ethical issues.

On the one hand, by producing meat in a petri dish, you have a number of advantages:
- A slab of muscle-tissue doesn't have a conscious. Most cows/pigs, and maybe chickens aren't exactly enjoying themselves in the bio-industry. And after that miserable life, they get slaughtered. Just growing the meat without the brain attached removes this problem.
- There is potential for a higher energy efficiency. Producing meat costs an enormous amount of clean water and food. A living cow has a lot of processes going on that are unnecessary for the production of the meat, and that thus waste those resources. An example would be the brain; functioning brains cost a LOT of resources to maintain, but we humans don't see any benefit from the cow thinking "damn, my life sucks".

On the other hand, petri dish meat is certainly a very artificial way to produce food, and a weird way to treat (parts of..) living beings. But I would personally respond to such criticisms with "well, the way how we grow and treat pigs in the bioindustry is also anything but normal".

Because of that, I'm personally very much in favor of petri dish meat, and would happily start buying it as soon as it becomes available. I'd even be happy to help with the research towards it if a related research position is available to me when I'm ready to begin on my PhD.

How do others feel about this? Any other ethical arguments that play a role in this situation?

Great post. I'm in favor of it 100%. I don't know if I would be able to consume it myself (haven't eaten meat in a couple of decades) but I look forward to it being a viable alternative to the filth that is factory farming.

 

[ranmaonehalf]

The Colbert Report had an item on meat grown in petri dishes. It's something that I've thought about before... it brings a number of ethical issues.

On the one hand, by producing meat in a petri dish, you have a number of advantages:
- A slab of muscle-tissue doesn't have a conscious. Most cows/pigs, and maybe chickens aren't exactly enjoying themselves in the bio-industry. And after that miserable life, they get slaughtered. Just growing the meat without the brain attached removes this problem.
- There is potential for a higher energy efficiency. Producing meat costs an enormous amount of clean water and food. A living cow has a lot of processes going on that are unnecessary for the production of the meat, and that thus waste those resources. An example would be the brain; functioning brains cost a LOT of resources to maintain, but we humans don't see any benefit from the cow thinking "damn, my life sucks".

On the other hand, petri dish meat is certainly a very artificial way to produce food, and a weird way to treat (parts of..) living beings. But I would personally respond to such criticisms with "well, the way how we grow and treat pigs in the bioindustry is also anything but normal".

Because of that, I'm personally very much in favor of petri dish meat, and would happily start buying it as soon as it becomes available. I'd even be happy to help with the research towards it if a related research position is available to me when I'm ready to begin on my PhD.

How do others feel about this? Any other ethical arguments that play a role in this situation?

Petri meat is old news.
From what I hear its akin to ground meat.
Im much more of a steak man myself.

Im curious about vegetarian views on this.

I myself would have no problem eating it.

 

[roflcopter101]

Though this is slightly unrelated, I would like to pose a question to you all: would you eat this laboratory meat if it was donated human meat?

 

[Belk]

Though this is slightly unrelated, I would like to pose a question to you all: would you eat this laboratory meat if it was donated human meat?

No. I admit there is no logical reason why not other then the yuck factor, but I going to have to go with the yuck factor because there is no point in eating food if it's just going to come back up again.

 

[roflcopter101]

No. I admit there is no logical reason why not other then the yuck factor, but I going to have to go with the yuck factor because there is no point in eating food if it's just going to come back up again.

Wouldn't it be novel, though?

 

[Ectezus]

Though this is slightly unrelated, I would like to pose a question to you all: would you eat this laboratory meat if it was donated human meat?

I wouldn't be the first one, that's for sure.

But if it's tasting really good, cheap, healthy and removes animal suffering I wouldn't mind.

 

[Belk]

Wouldn't it be novel, though?

Yes, though you can currently get human flavored tofu. Not sure how like the real thing it is of course.

 

[gwenmead]

Somehow this thread reminds me of the bovoid from The Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

So that's another question: who all would eat meat from a sentient animal that genuinely wanted to be eaten?

Does that differ from petri meat or not? If so, why? If not, why not?

I have no opinion formed yet, I'm just... digesting the issue.

 

[Mystman]

So that's another question: who all would eat meat from a sentient animal that genuinely wanted to be eaten?

I'd personally be fine with it. I mean, we're likely eating sentient animals who probably don't want to be eaten.

Ofcourse, eating chimpanzees or humans who wanted to be eaten would still feel really weird.. and I'd not do it unless on the verge of starving. The idea of "cannibalism = bad" has been so ingrained into our consciousness, that eating a human being would probably be a very traumatising experience.

 

[Joachim]

Yeah, I understand there is more satisfaction to eating that just suppressing the hunger feeling.
Although I do consider it to be the main reason. If I'm really full I don't want anything else, not even sweets or something. (Sure there's always room for one more of course, but it's not necessarily a desire)

The pills I suggested could easily come combined with a hunger suppressing substance and something that mimics the way food taste. It will be possible to recreate the exact taste of food. Although I admit certain other things like texture also play an important role.

The point however is that our current way of feeding the planet would be insane once we've got a better alternative. Just imagine all the garbage you throw out each day, and what is needed to create it in the first place, all the animal suffering and space it takes.

I know pills don't seem like a beautiful future. In fact all this suppressing or mimicking of feelings sounds rather dangerous. I agree, but when you think about it with an logical point of view it really makes sense.
Less garbage, less animal suffering, more time for other things and probably most important: getting the exact amount of nutrients your body needs would increase human health quite a lot.

My guess is that this scenario I'm sketching won't happen until we actually have space colonies. Then the 'food pill' industry will really take off (literally) and humans on earth will probably follow quite soon once they become aware of the benefits.

- Ectezus

You do realize that if we can successfully terraform a planet we can simply grow livestock on it, and by virtue of being terraformed it would also have plants? I just ask this because if we terraform Mars then we have basically created another Earth where we can do there what we can do there without your need for food pills and foam, which would deny man the pleasure of going out and killing a deer or ripping into a juicy porterhouse.