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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Killing People
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Polycarp_fan
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OphidiaPhile
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It depends on whether or not the AR-15 he is pointing at you is loaded or not.
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Let me ask do you mean directly or indirectly? As in, if you are in a war and your enemies have decided a school is the place to hide out and shoot rockets, can you fire back and perhaps kill children while that is not your intent?
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Polycarp_fan
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You do realize that you are flying an atheist icon don't you?
Now, what circumstances is it OK and kill a one-year old?
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You do realize that you are flying an atheist icon don't you?
Now, what circumstances is it OK and kill a one-year old?
I think the situation I presented would be one. If people are hiding in civilian areas during a war and firing at your side, you can't let them kill your people. The civilian casualties are terrible and should be avoided at all costs, but you can't give the enemy that kind of upper hand.
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It depends on whether or not the AR-15 he is pointing at you is loaded or not.
I anticipated the first two answers, and I think they're technically fair answers. But it doesn't as much surprise me that they come from people with atheist icons, as it does that they come from people with U.S. Democrat icons. For sake of consistency I hope I don't ever catch them criticizing U.S. or Israeli military actions based upon inadvertent civilian casualties.
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I anticipated the first two answers, and I think they're technically fair answers. But it doesn't as much surprise me that they come from people with atheist icons, as it does that they come from people with U.S. Democrat icons. For sake of consistency I hope I don't ever catch them criticizing U.S. or Israeli military actions based upon inadvertent civilian casualties.
Not on inadvertent ones. I mean, if you are caught targeting children, then I'm going to have an issue. Go look at the Gaza thread if you'd like to see my responses to the negative talk about Israel.
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And I am not flying an atheist icon.
Yes you're not, sorry.
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So it may sometimes be okay to kill a one-year-old who is threatening an innocent person, or shielding a military objective. I might agree with those in rare circumstances. Any other situations where it's okay?
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I'm going with a cautious no here, simply because I'm sure someone will come up with another related scenario that I would be willing to go with.
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So, is this just going to be about killing one year olds, or is this going to segue into abortion?
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Yes, it's about abortion, although I don't think it needs to "segue" since I think I can show that abortion is just another word for killing people. But I'll let it sit for a while to see if anyone has any other good reasons for killing one year olds.
Or I guess I could speed things up and go ahead and ask about killing one month old people.
Or I guess I could speed things up and go ahead and ask about killing one month old people.
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jayem
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Not to get too technical, but there is the ethical concept of prima facie wrong. Meaning an action is wrong, but may be permitted if there are other overriding ethical considerations to justify it. War is a good example. I'm sure dozens, if not hundreds, of toddlers were killed when the atomic bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But it was believed that ending the war early with shock and awe justified the loss of innocent life. This would be a prima facie wrong. As opposed to an ultima facie wrong. Which is an all-things-considered wrong. I'd think something like sexually molesting a 1 year old could be an ultima facie wrong. (Even then, someone might be forced to do it by a perp holding a knife to another child's throat.) My point is that, in life, events can be so convoluted that ethical decisions have to be made on a case-by-case basis. And an act can be wrong, but there may be no better choice to prevent a greater wrong.
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Could we just speed it up and get to the part where people argue about where life begins, and where all abortion threads end up?
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Sure, except that modern science and common sense both tell us when life begins: when the sperm joins with the egg. The pertinent questions then are: is there any human life I can kill simply because I don't want him or her to be alive, and if so, what's the cut-off age?
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lawtonfogle
My solace my terror, my terror my solace.
But the cost of the morals of your side, plus the ability of the enemy to use this PR, can hurt the war far more than any benefit from winning the battle helped. Win the battle, lose the war.
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