Kerry Catholic vote

[BjBarnett]

Ive said it for months Kerry is a smart politician but he wasnt smart enough. I believe had Kerry stuck to his Catholic guns and went more with the beliefs of his church and less with the beliefs of his party he would of won the election. with it being as close as it was do you think that if Kerry would of ran on his Catholic faith would it of made a difference? I believe it would of made a huge difference.

 

[raptor13]

Definitely... I would have at least given him a look if he wasn't so darn pro-choice.

 

[geocajun]

If he ran as a good Catholic, he would have lost alot of votes i think.. poor Alan Keys tried that and look what happened to him..

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Who would he have lost votes to? There would have been two pro-lif candidates... but as I type this, I realize the basic flaw in my thinking. The democratic party would have never allowed a pro-life polititian be their cadidate. Unfortunately I fear this will happen soon in the Republican Party... perhaps even next term if Giuliani (sp?) runs like they're predicting (totally pro-choice, along with Schwatzenegger, McCain, Powell... plus Nancy Regan put a lot of pressure on the White house to allow for stem-cell research... so much for a pro-life party).

I voted for Bush because he is pro-life... but I also feel that this is only putting off the day when pro-life is a thing of the Church... and only the Church. I hope I'm wrong... but in the meantime we need to keep preparing for that possible day and be ready to take it on on our own.

Well, at least we have a pro-life platform for another 4 years (IMHO)

John

 

[Debi1967]

I will tell you that for me it was the biggest deciding factor. I could not in good conscience nor knowing that if I voted for a Catholic that was Pro- Abortion then also be advocating and helping to advocate Abortion myself vote for him. So, that made all the other points rather moot. IOW there was nothing left for me to consider.

 

[Ampmonster]

Ive said it for months Kerry is a smart politician but he wasnt smart enough. I believe had Kerry stuck to his Catholic guns and went more with the beliefs of his church and less with the beliefs of his party he would of won the election. with it being as close as it was do you think that if Kerry would of ran on his Catholic faith would it of made a difference? I believe it would of made a huge difference.

deep down, Kerry is more way liberal than he is catholic and the two are complete oposites

 

[CrystalBrooke]

i think i get what Kerry was doing in supporting things that i believe he normally would not...but i cant explain it. if he has run like Catholic...i honestly think he would have won...i still commend him for what he was trying not to do rather than trying to do...yes you're horribly confused but youd probably disagree with me anyways

 

[Xpycoctomos]

I think I get you... he was trying to put america back on track... re-establishing relations with countries, fixing things in Iraq, a mess started by Bush, and (at lest appearing to) re-espablish limits on the president that the Bush administration seemed to ignore (ie, Patriot Act). I can respect where you are coming from. I just don't think you do that at the expense of defensless and innocent human life (from embryo to full grown baby, "rights" he stubbornly supported throughout his entire career). But I understand where you are coming from and I think it is unfortunate that so many (myself included) got caught up into demonizing him as a person and making it seem as if he were less competent than he really was. Following me? it doens't matter. lol

John

 

[Carrye]

John, why are you so cool?

 

[marciadietrich]

Who would he have lost votes to? There would have been two pro-lif candidates... but as I type this, I realize the basic flaw in my thinking. The democratic party would have never allowed a pro-life polititian be their cadidate. Unfortunately I fear this will happen soon in the Republican Party... perhaps even next term if Giuliani (sp?) runs like they're predicting (totally pro-choice, along with Schwatzenegger, McCain, Powell... plus Nancy Regan put a lot of pressure on the White house to allow for stem-cell research... so much for a pro-life party).

I voted for Bush because he is pro-life... but I also feel that this is only putting off the day when pro-life is a thing of the Church... and only the Church. I hope I'm wrong... but in the meantime we need to keep preparing for that possible day and be ready to take it on on our own.

Well, at least we have a pro-life platform for another 4 years (IMHO)

John

Actually Bush the elder was basically pro-choice before becoming VP, and still leaned that way I think until he ran for president himself. He conformed to the party - though there was a point it took a good challenge from Pat Buchanan to keep the party on track in that regard. There have always been around 10 - 20% of republicans who are pro-choice (probably 40% or better accept exceptions for rape and incest) despite the conflict with the party platform. Just like there are about the same or better democrats that are pro-life, until they hit a major candidacy like president then the democrats become more pro-choice (as did both Clinton and Gore) ... republicans are forced to be more pro-life if they run for president (Bush and I'm not sure that wasn't the case with Dole as well).

Actually Sam Brownback, just reelected Senator from Kansas, started as pro-choice, he studied because of the flack he got for that as a republican (I've heard Mother Theresa was a big influence), he converted to Cathocism and is now strongly pro-life. So another person who started pro-choice and ended up being pro-life in part due to conforming to the party and learning about the issue brought about a spiritual conversion as well.

I dont' mind Giuliani, if he is willing to accept the party's platform ... but probably wouldn't get my support in the primary. And he'd have to be very clear on not supporting any pro-abortion policies or changes, because I'd gladly vote for a third party instead that was pro-life. I would guess that a very strong 40%+ of the party has abortion as their number one issue they won't bend on, I doubt the republicans will toss that for a flash in the pan candidate.

Marcia

 

[mheffernen5]

I am too yet another democrat to say I'm sad because Bush is never going to get us out of Iraq...John Paul II doesn't approve of the Iraq war either

 

[princess_ballet]

I'm sorry, but to me, Democrats and Christians just don't mix. Perhaps in private life they can, but in the big races they don't. The party will never put up a Democrat that is pro-life for president. Their entire base would be abondaned and not vote for him, even in a tight race. It would be shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[princess_ballet]

John Paul II doesn't approve of the Iraq war either

Once again, innocent lives being taken and we're supposed to stand by and twiddle our thumbs? I don't get the logic.

 

[Atlanta]

Different people have different opinions on what make a good Catholic. Also, just because Kerry was baptized Catholic doesn't mean he has to be one and to agree with the Church when he is older.

I personally was annoyed that this election become a lot about his religion - religion and politics should not mix because it does not matter if the President is a Christian. I pay my doctor to fix my broken ankle, It doesn't matter what religion he is as long as he fixes my foot. Same with the President - I don't care if he goes against everything his Church stands for as long as he runs my country well and I believe Kerry would have done a better job.

 

[MParedon]

I'm sorry, this just popped into my head and I since I have a bad memory, I just had to type it while it's fresh...

If I did not believe in God, I would still want my doctor, lawyer and my banker to do so.
---GCC

Maybe that wasn't too relevant, but I just had to type it, sorry.

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Actually Bush the elder was basically pro-choice before becoming VP, and still leaned that way I think until he ran for president himself. He conformed to the party - though there was a point it took a good challenge from Pat Buchanan to keep the party on track in that regard. There have always been around 10 - 20% of republicans who are pro-choice (probably 40% or better accept exceptions for rape and incest) despite the conflict with the party platform. Just like there are about the same or better democrats that are pro-life, until they hit a major candidacy like president then the democrats become more pro-choice (as did both Clinton and Gore) ... republicans are forced to be more pro-life if they run for president (Bush and I'm not sure that wasn't the case with Dole as well).

Actually Sam Brownback, just reelected Senator from Kansas, started as pro-choice, he studied because of the flack he got for that as a republican (I've heard Mother Theresa was a big influence), he converted to Cathocism and is now strongly pro-life. So another person who started pro-choice and ended up being pro-life in part due to conforming to the party and learning about the issue brought about a spiritual conversion as well.

I dont' mind Giuliani, if he is willing to accept the party's platform ... but probably wouldn't get my support in the primary. And he'd have to be very clear on not supporting any pro-abortion policies or changes, because I'd gladly vote for a third party instead that was pro-life. I would guess that a very strong 40%+ of the party has abortion as their number one issue they won't bend on, I doubt the republicans will toss that for a flash in the pan candidate.

Marcia

Good points.... I hope you're right!

 

[Xpycoctomos]

I am too yet another democrat to say I'm sad because Bush is never going to get us out of Iraq...John Paul II doesn't approve of the Iraq war either

Yes, but JPII and the Vatican also made it very clear that a Catholic can be in good standing and still support the War in Iraq if it is for decent reasons. His statement was not ex-Cathedra but rather the official position of the Vatican (as a State). So this is debateable in the Catholic Church. Abortion is not and one cannot support abortion and be in good standing until they confess this.

That is not to say that a good Catholic could not have voted for Kerry, but they could not have voted for Kerry because they liked his pro-choice stance. However, you can vote for Bush AND if you do believe that the war in Iraq fits the "Just War" theory as stated by the RCC, then yes, you can vote for him BECAUSE you think the Iraq was is just. I'm not saying I believe that, I'm jsut saying that this is a matter of what goes on in the conscious. Now, if you believe that the war is UNjust and wrong then you have a dilemma on your hands: Vote for someone who wishes to support and proliferate abortion in the US and abroad (giving international aid) or someone who leads a war for greedy, unchristian reasons. That's a tough decision and needs to be left up to the person and God.

By the way, I agree that I shouldn't concern myself with what religion my president is as long as he runs my country well... but I suggest that fighting for abortion, partial birth abortion and stem-cell research to be "rights" is NOT running my country well. This is not a purely religious issue any more than any other human rights issue is. A president could be agnostic and still come to the conclusion that these traditionally liberal positions are wrong.

One more thought. As I said above, I don't think it is necessary for one to concern his or herself with the president's religion. But this is not to say that I don't care, it jsut means it is something personal that I cannot know. I HOPE Bush is as faith-centered as he and his people claim because it is scary to think that the leader of our country does not seek out God's guidance in prayer. I HOPE that Kerry is as well (he is still senator of Massachussetts). But these are things I can't know and I have no right to say that these people are not Christians. I can say that some of Kerry's positions are NOT Christian and many will say the same about Bush's (ie the war and especially the death penalty). So in the end, yes, faith (and religion) does matter.. but it is next to impossible for us to judge.

John

 

[Xpycoctomos]

John, why are you so cool?

Carrie,

Why are you so nice?

 

[BjBarnett]

Once again, innocent lives being taken and we're supposed to stand by and twiddle our thumbs? I don't get the logic.

we have been twiddling our thumbs while the Sudanese die.. but war is never a good thing. I actually think they should do something about Sudan because its way worse than Iraq ever thought about being as far as innocent people dieing...

 

[Lil_Lamb_11]

I just wanted to throw this in... mainly because the professor in one of my classes is extremely anti-Bush and I'm just about fed up with hearing how the war is unjust and that is grounds to vote for Kerry. Liberals for Kerry seem to ignore abortion entirely.

First, understand that the Catholic Church values the right to life itself. This is extremely important. We should always fight for equality and life for all people. So yes, obviously the Pope is against the war. Lives are at stake and this makes it immoral in many senses. However, stop and consider that more babies (Americans!) are killed by abortion in one single day than the total Americans lives lost since we entered Iraq. Yes it is important, yes it is wrong (in some opinions), and yes we should look at the issue, but you need to look at the bigger picture. There are 1.6 million babies killed each year in the United States and people get angry if you try to mention it. Most often they say "Thats not the only issue." No, its not the only issue, but its much more important than the country is placing it. Also, (and this is an entirely different topic) there are positive things coming out of this war. I know there are negative sides but don't let the biased media convince you that there is nothing positive.

One more thing that I thought was upsetting... do you realize that livestock has had more rights than the human fetus has? Its true, slaughterhouses have strict rules and it would be absolutely illegal to treat the animal in the way a baby is treated (as in a partial birth abortion, where the skull is punctured and the brain is sucked out, collapsing the skull). Thank God President Bush pushed the partial birth abortion ban!!