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MatthewDiscipleofGod

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"If you call exposing blatant plagiarism an "attack," then you have a pretty skewed view of things. That was no "attack." If s0uljah can't handle having his dishonesty exposed, maybe he shouldn't have claimed to have written what he clearly didn't write in the first place. Did you consider that option?"

You called him whiny, or did you forget that? If all you can do is name call on here you might as well not be here.

"Wrong. He claimed, several times, to have written the essay. He didn't write the essay, and that's been demonstrated, conclusively. Reality is a wonderful place. You should visit it sometime."

I'm sorry I'm not a part of YOUR reality. Are you going to start attacking me also? Start acting mature please. I perfer a civil conversation.

"I have made no false claims. And let me tell you I am not going to lie down and watch s0uljah's blatantly dishonest exercise in practically wholesale plagiarism be turned into an "attack," as you would say, against those that exposed it."

Who's actually being the more dishonest one here is the question.
 
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MatthewDiscipleofGod

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Oh also plagiarism is when someone doesn't give the source. He gave the source am I not correct? If I am then you are the one lying. Also you never did reply to my post to begin with. You right away mutate this into more attacks. How about I dig up stuff on you? You never did reply to that. I probably could write a book on your life. Wouldn't that feel akward? My post was more about bashing of Kent when people get their sources from places that are unreliable to begin with but you just wanna change topics to whatever suits you.
 
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D. Scarlatti

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Project 86: You called him whiny, or did you forget that?

Nope. To be precise, I once told him to quit whining and answer a question that had been asked three times, and I once characterized part of one of his replies to me as a "whine." So sue me.

Project 86: If all you can do is name call on here you might as well not be here.

That's not all I can do, so the antecedent of your conditional fails. Modus ponens. You know the rest.

project 86: I'm sorry I'm not a part of YOUR reality. Are you going to start attacking me also?

Nope. What I was doing was replying to your prior post. It contained several falsehoods. Falsehoods should not go unremarked, IMO.

project 86: Start acting mature please. I prefer a civil conversation.

As do I.

project 86: Who's actually being the more dishonest one here is the question.

Okay. Who is it then? Where was I dishonest? Show me please. Did you see the undisputed evidence of s0uljah's blatant plagiarism, to which he has yet to admit? Would you like to see it again?
 
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MatthewDiscipleofGod

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"Nope. To be precise, I once told him to quit whining and answer a question that had been asked three times, and I once characterized part of one of his replies to me as a "whine." So sue me."

You basicly called him a whiner. Confess it!

"Okay. Who is it then? Where was I dishonest? Show me please. Did you see the undisputed evidence of s0uljah's blatant plagiarism, to which he has yet to admit? Would you like to see it again?"

Going to reply to my 2nd post were I address this or going to run away from the issue?
 
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D. Scarlatti

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Project 86: Oh also plagiarism is when someone doesn't give the source.

That definition is far too vague.

Project 86: He gave the source am I not correct? If I am then you are the one lying.

First of all, I never said s0uljah was lying. Never. I said he is a shameless plagiarist, based on the undisputed evidence. And I stand by that claim.

No, he did not properly provide attribution for his sources. I addressed that fact in my very first post on this issue. He claimed to have written the "essay." Most of it was lifted verbatim, complete with identical paragraph breaks, internal brackets, and spelling and punctuation errors directly and extensively from the writings of other people. That is textbook plagiarism, and I documented it.

s0uljah listed a range of URLs at the bottom of his essay. That does not excuse s0uljah from wholesale copying of text without attribution. As I said, I addressed this point in my very first post exposing s0uljah's blatant plagiarism.

Bibliographies do not suffice as an excuse for wholesale plagiarism when the substance of the text of the essay is copied verbatim from those sources, particularly when one specifically claims, on more than one occasion I might add, to have written that text themselves.

Not only that but s0uljah didn't just claim authorship of the work of anonymous internet scribblers, he claimed to have written material for which authorship and copyright is clearly provided. That, as I said, is textbook plagiarism. There's no getting around it, and the evidence speaks for itself.

Project 86: Also you never did reply to my post to begin with. You right away mutate this into more attacks. How about I dig up stuff on you? You never did reply to that.

You and your "attacks." Dig up what you want. Fill your boots. Find me plagiarizing without proper attribution. That is the issue here.

Project 86: I probably could write a book on your life. Wouldn't that feel akward? My post was more about bashing of Kent when people get their sources from places that are unreliable to begin with but you just wanna change topics to whatever suits you.

First off I asked you if you were referring to s0uljah and you said you were. Like I said I'm not going to let s0uljah's blatant plagiarism be turned against those that have exposed it. Personally I find the practice of plagiarism, and especially this most egregious of circumstances, thoroughly dishonest and frankly appalling.
 
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MatthewDiscipleofGod

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"That definition is far too vague."

Don't think i'm going to let you get away from avoiding this issue.

Definition:
: to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) WITHOUT CREDITING THE SOURCE

Don't tell me it's to vague.

"I said he is a shameless plagiarist"

Again FALSLY calling him that. It really is just a shameless attack on a forum member.

"You and your "attacks." Dig up what you want. Fill your boots. Find me plagiarizing without proper attribution. That is the issue here."

My first post never talking about you and your attack on him or plagiarizing. Will you stop changing topics!!!!

"First off I asked you if you were referring to s0uljah and you said you were. Like I said I'm not going to let s0uljah's blatant plagiarism be turned against those that have exposed it. Personally I find the practice of plagiarism, and especially this most egregious of circumstances, thoroughly dishonest and frankly appalling."

You typed a paragraph there and ever even once got close to answering my questions. Again avoiding the topic.

Well this has been a wasted hour or my time. I really need to get going now. Maybe check back and do some replying later even though if you keep avoiding my questions it will take a decade before any of my questions ever get addressed!
 
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LewisWildermuth

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"Plagiarism is using others' ideas and words without clearly acknowledging the source of that information."

"Strategies for Avoiding Plagiarism

1. Put in quotations everything that comes directly from the text especially when taking notes.

2. Paraphrase, but be sure you are not just rearranging or replacing a few words.

Instead, read over what you want to paraphrase carefully; cover up the text with your hand, or close the text so you can't see any of it (and so aren't temptedto use the text as a "guide"). Write out the idea in your own words without peeking.

3. Check your paraphrase against the original text to be sure you have not accidentally used the same phrases or words, and that the information is accurate." From: http://www.indiana.edu/~wts/wts/plagiarism.html

SoulJah clearly didn't follow these rules so he is guilty of plagerism.

I do not know if he knew this before he did what he did, but continuing to deny it after being shown what you did was wrong is not what I would recomend as a good course of action for anyone trying to gain any ammount of credibility here.

I would suggest you read up on plagerism and fair use project86 so you do not fall into the same trap.
 
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Starscream

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Maybe check back and do some replying later even though if you keep avoiding my questions it will take a decade before any of my questions ever get addressed!


I know!  I've been asking s0uljah the same question over and over again, and he never replies!

s0uljah:  How much of that essay is in your own words?

Oh wait, you were speaking to someone else.  Well, since you obviously despise it when people continually fail to answer a question that is repeatably put before them then I'm sure you'll join me in trying to get an answer out of s0uljah then, right?

Right?

Sure.
 
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D. Scarlatti

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Absolutely incredible.

To recap:

P86: "You called him whiny, or did you forget that?"
DS: "Nope. To be precise, I once told him to quit whining and answer a question that had been asked three times, and I once characterized part of one of his replies to me as a 'whine.' So sue me."
P86: "You basicly called him a whiner. Confess it!"

DS: See above. Conclude whatever you like. Anyway I'm calling him a plagiarist, which is heck of a lot worse than calling him a whiner. There are plenty of whiners around here, but probably not too many plagiarists.

P86: "Who's actually being the more dishonest one here is the question."
DS: "Okay. Who is it then? Where was I dishonest? Show me please. Did you see the undisputed evidence of s0uljah's blatant plagiarism, to which he has yet to admit? Would you like to see it again?"
P86: "Going to reply to my 2nd post were I address this or going to run away from the issue?"

DS: Trust me, I am not running away from anything, that is the point. And I won't. But, did you address this? You asked, "Who's actually being the more dishonest one here is the question." So, who is it? You know my answer already.

P86: "Oh also plagiarism is when someone doesn't give the source."
DS: "That definition is far too vague."
P86: "Don't think I'm going to let you get away from avoiding this issue."

P86 then offers the following definition:
" : to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) WITHOUT CREDITING THE SOURCE"

DS: Thank you. That's precisely what he did. Here's another definition:

"Plagiarism is the improper use, or failure to attribute, another person's writing or ideas (intellectual property). It can be as subtle as the inadvertent neglect to include quotes or references when citing another source or as blatantly unethical as knowingly copying an entire paper verbatim and claiming it as your own work."

Source: plagiarism.org FAQs

Emphasis added.

How about the OED:

"plagiarize … 1 take and use (the thoughts, writings, inventions, etc. of another person) as one's own. 2 pass off the thoughts etc. of (another person) as one's own."

Source: The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Current English, Eighth Edition.

How about Black's Law Dictionary:

"plagiarism, n. The act or an instance of copying or stealing another's words or ideas and attributing them as one's own.

"'Plagiarism, which many people commonly think has to do with copyright, is not in fact a legal doctrine. True plagiarism is an ethical, not a legal, offense, and is enforceable by academic authorities, not courts. Plagiarism occurs when someone - a hurried student, a neglectful professor, an unscrupulous writer - falsely claims someone else's words, whether copyrighted or not, as his own. Of course, if the plagiarized work is protected by copyright, the unauthorized reproduction is also a copyright infringement." Paul Goldstein, Copyright's Highway 12 (1994)."

Source: Black's Law Dictionary, Seventh Edition.

Still think I'm avoiding the issue?

The dispositive issue is not whether s0uljah provided a range of URLs at the end of his post; the dispositive issue is that the posts for which he claimed authorship contain large blocks of text clearly and uncontrovertibly appropriated from others without attribution. s0uljah conspicuously failed to attribute what he had appropriated to the originating sources. Indeed, s0uljah claimed these words and ideas as his own. "Here, I wrote this up," he claimed. "I wrote that essay," he claimed. But he did not write that essay. That is plagiarism.

So in summary provision of a range of URLs is insufficient as proper attribution and does not change the fact the he ripped these authors off verbatim and stated "Here I wrote this up" and "I wrote this essay," thereby clearly claiming those words and thoughts as his own in complete accordance with the definitions of plagiarism provided above.

Bibliographies and footnotes and/or endnotes are par for the course in any essay. They do not represent a weasel clause allowing the purported author to escape the fact he clearly and brazenly copied huge blocks of text verbatim and claimed them as his own.

This is a presentation and statement of fact and not an "attack," despite your best efforts to characterize it as such. The topic is plagiarism and it is thoroughly incorrect to suggest that I have avoided it, as demonstrated above.

So, Project86, perhaps you might answer your own question for me: "Who is being dishonest here"? I have answered it unequivocally.
 
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Originally posted by s0uljah
After being the victim of certain atheists smeer campaigns personally,

It's not a smear if it's true and relevant.

and knowing that they will say anything to attack God.

Including telling the truth and pointing out that someone has plagiarized, even if he happens to be a Christian.

I'm sorry, but just because you think you are better than us, does not mean you can cry foul when we point out that you are not.
 
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Originally posted by s0uljah
Project 86-

Thank you for defending me brother. Its good to know there are real Christians here, that are interested in the truth, instead of joining the ignorant bandwagon of Scarletti's smeer campain.

Oh yes, it is better to be a "real Christian" interested in "the truth" than recognizing that souljah didn't provide adequate citations in an essay that he claimed was his own words.

Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!


--Sir Walter Scott
 
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Originally posted by s0uljah
Project 86-

Thank you for defending me brother. Its good to know there are real Christians here, that are interested in the truth, instead of joining the ignorant bandwagon of Scarletti's smeer campain.

Look, just citing big list of sources at the end of an "essay" that is completely cut and pasted is STILL plagiarism, pure and simple. Try to explain that to any school teacher when you try to turn something like that in. Just try it.

Think about how ridiculous it would be for you to try that, and then accuse your teacher of starting a "smear campaign" being totally uninterested in "truth." It's just bizarre.

If plagiarism is your benchmark of "truth," then I'm proud to say that I'm completely uninterested in your version of "truth."

Psst... it's "smear."
 
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Morat

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  Souljah, I have a question for you. I have not participated in this discussion about plagerism, so this is at best a neutral question:

  "Assume, for a moment, that the essay you posted was one for a High school or college class. It was an informal essay, written on whatever topic you wanted, and on a loose academic standard. Would you have turned in that essay as it was? Further, do you think that a high school teacher or college professor would have considered your work acceptable?"

 
 
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Morat

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  Souljah, I have a question for you. I have not participated in this discussion about plagerism, so this is at best a neutral question:

  "Assume, for a moment, that the essay you posted was one for a High school or college class. It was an informal essay, written on whatever topic you wanted, and on a loose academic standard. Would you have turned in that essay as it was? Further, do you think that a high school teacher or college professor would have considered your work acceptable?"

 
 
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Hi Morat-

It wasnt an essay, nor was it completed. I posted an excerpt of one I am working on, along with the sites I got the info from, so no, I wouldnt turn it in like that, as it wasnt an "essay," which I explained.

People wanted historical evidence of Christ, so I posted that list, as a post, not an essay.

Scarletti waits for me to post anything that he can try and twist around.  He literally follows me around and tracks my every post. A simple question to me about it, would get a simple answer.  But I smear campaign, will not be taken well.
 
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Originally posted by RufusAtticus
Souljah, if it wasn't completed. Why didn't you initially say so? Why don't you admit that in its present form you are plagiarising? Why haven't you promised to correct your method of attribution?

Because I wasn't give the chance, instead, by the time I checked the thread there were like eight atheists that had all lined up to ridicule me.

Are you saying that I am lying when I said it isn't finished yet?
 
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