Kazaa

[GivingMyAll4Him]

lots of people on these forums have talked about having kazaa installed...i know kazaa CAN be used for good reasons, but is it ethical or legal, is it a sin, to exchange copywritten files?

also, there are legal ways to exchange files...there is a site (sorry, this will be post 13, i cant link yet, you'll have to google-search it) called ChristianMP3, it is a group of independant artists who post their music for free, its really fun...unfortunately its down right now, but i'm sure there are more.

anyway, the real topic is kazaa...what are your opinions?

 

[thanksjesus]

Book of Romans calls us to obey the laws of the land. Sharing copyrighted material is a sin. Burning movies, games or music CD's is a sin, if it is copyrighted.

There are a lot of Christians that call this legalistic, some go as far as saying, "God will forgive me." I was bashed on another Christian forum for saying this because so many people used Kazaa and other data stealing programs. The Truth hurts sometimes

Peace

 

[Crain]

I use to have Kazaa. I actually liked it. Because there are somethings I could not find in stores. I would buy a CD for just one song so I looked them up on Kazaa. And I found them. Anyhow I think Kazaa is ok as long as you do not burn the CD. They just sued this little kid for having alot of music on his hard drive. As long as he was not buring CD's off it. I think that its ok because he can easily delete them. But some "money hunger artist" made sure that they were getting some money off him. I think they sued him for 20 million. Now thats just wrong.... I could not believe that someone thats banking rolling over 20 million a year would not sued someone because they downloaded some music off the internet. I'm ok when it comes to Kazaa.

 

[thanksjesus]

Hi Crain

Do you realize that downloading copyrighted material is against the law? Doesnt matter if that little kid didnt burn it to a CD, he is still using it for free. The "money hungry band" paid good money to produce that material, it isnt up to us to say that they shouldnt get paid.

The bible is very clear, we are to obey the laws of the land.

Peace

 

[Pseud]

I just deleted a load of software and movies that I'd downloaded, because it is theft and you cannot justify it in anyway.

You are robbing them of their intellectual property that you only have permission to have a copy of if you buy it.

 

[rwl]

Using any of the peer to peer filesharing programs out there to copy copyrighted material is theft. And as was mentioned Romans calls us to obey the laws of the lands ( unless the go againt the laws of God). I think thats how it finishes. I don't have a bible in front of me nor time to look through at the moment.

So... it falls under sin.

 

[BeanMak]

If you do a google search on Kaaza, you will get some very interesting articles about the company and the owners. They have weaved a very complex web to avoid US copyright laws. They use off shore companies in countries known for their secrecy. This doesn't sound like a legitamate enterprise to me

 

[PennylessZ28]

Let me educate those of you who are spouting off your **** without any true understanding of the law.

DOWNLOAD DOWNLOAD DOWNLOAD

You can do this to your hearts content, it is not illegal.

It is not illegal to buy a bootlegged copy of a movie off the street.

DISTRUBUTION is illegal. File sharing of copyrighted material is illegal.

If you download to your hearts content and never once share a file, you are not voliating any of man's laws.

Making copies of your own CD's and Games, for personal use, is legal.

Distrubuting that to friends and others is against the law.

If you'd like I'll post the laws, and we can discuss context, but this is the simplest way I can put it for all the simple minds.

Not trying to be rude, just trying to cut the through all the **** and all the SIN this and that mobo jumbo you people try to spill out.

And also, there are a great deal of respectful companies that use off shore facalites in other countries to aviod all kinds of US Laws.

But you know GM, FORD, DUPont, K-Mart, things like that are all so legitmate.

Kaaza wasn't created in America, it was orginally from Overseas anyhow.

And not every nation shares our views on laws. This is why its harder to set guidlines on the global scale of the internet.



PLEASE LEARN TO THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK.

End of dicussion.

 

[Pseud]

Dude, that's a pretty hostile post.

I doubt the owners of that intellectual property would permit one to download a copy for free if they had a say in the matter.

Unless you get given a copy (or get permission) by the owner, you don't have permission to have a copy of it. That's what I find wrong about it.

 

[MsDe]

Exactly, Pseud. It's my understanding that the copyright laws are being infringed upon by Kazaa and other file sharing sites.

 

[MsDe]

Let me educate those of you who are spouting off your **** without any true understanding of the law.

DISTRUBUTION is illegal. File sharing of copyrighted material is illegal.

If you download to your hearts content and never once share a file, you are not voliating any of man's laws. Distrubuting that to friends and others is against the law.

Ok, so file sharing is illegal. Kazaa is a file sharing website. If nothing else, I'm thinking that downloading copyrighted material from a file sharing website would also be illegal, using your logic.


Essentially, a copyright gives the copyright owner the exclusive right to reproduce the copyrighted work, to prepare derivative works, to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work, to perform the copyrighted work publicly, or to display the copyrighted work publicly.


It's my understanding that when one purchases a CD, one can use that CD for their personal use, as you have stated. Making a copy for personal use is ok. Sharing a copy, whether it be to one's friends or millions of users on Kazaa, is NOT ok. You've also stated that. So how is downloading shared files not illegal? To my knowledge, iMesh and Kazaa and other file sharing sites require the people that download files from them to also share files.

 

[paulewog]

[mod note]
keep it nice.
[/mod note]
(I know that's not a VB-code tag, it's not supposed to be... hehe

I have to disagree, pennyless.

Copying music is legal if it's for your own private use. I agree to that. However, in the case that you DO distribute it (bootlegged copies off the street). BUYING AND ILLEGAL GOOD is illegal AS WELL as selling it.

If I *buy* illegal drugs, it's still illegal.

Post the laws, if you want. As well as links, if possible, to the government pages on which those laws are posted... hehe. Because I am fairly certain that it's illegal to possess something illegal.

 

[paulewog]

Oh, and by the way.

People have been fined recently, if anyone's seen the news, for downloading illegal songs. They were not fined for distributing them. They were fined for DOWNLOADING them.

 

[PennylessZ28]

[mod note]
keep it nice.
[/mod note]
(I know that's not a VB-code tag, it's not supposed to be... hehe

I have to disagree, pennyless.

Copying music is legal if it's for your own private use. I agree to that. However, in the case that you DO distribute it (bootlegged copies off the street). BUYING AND ILLEGAL GOOD is illegal AS WELL as selling it.

If I *buy* illegal drugs, it's still illegal.

Post the laws, if you want. As well as links, if possible, to the government pages on which those laws are posted... hehe. Because I am fairly certain that it's illegal to possess something illegal.

Buy illegal drugs and buying a watch that is hott is not against the law.

If you went to a pawn shop and the sold you bootlegged copies under false pretense its not against the law, and you aren't going to jail.

The problem is the copyright laws get really line thin when it comes to this stuff.

Those people you spoke of were all sharing massive amounts of files. They are targeting and suing people who have over 3000 files on there systems.

The only way they can find that out is becuase you are sharing your files. Otherwise there is no way to tell without coming into your home are hacking into your home computer. And hacking into them would be illegal itself.

So they see these people on the internet sharing massive amounts of files and downloading and then they nail them.

I know this cuase I have been arrested for internet crimes in 1996. I hacked AOL online and I am lucky to have a computer now. The laws werent' all there at the time.

I can say I am offically banned from AOL for 7 more years though.

As if I'd ever use it anyways.

I keep up on the laws and know how to protect myself. I don't like getting caught anymore, and I don't do things that are stupid, or illegal.

As far as moral implications go of downloading music, thats between you and God.

We all know killing is immoral, but it seems we have issues deciding wheather or not downloading music and other things are or aren't immoral.

To bad God didn't spell it out clearly. Althouh some will argue he did and others will arguee he didn't.....

Think about it.

The other thing is, there are alot of other music on the internet that isn't copyrighted. Is legal to download those.

And not everyone supports our copyright laws so....

 

[paulewog]

If you went to a pawn shop and the sold you bootlegged copies under false pretense its not against the law, and you aren't going to jail.

Probably true, as you would have no idea, really. Although, I think you could still go to jail, as ignorance is not generally an excuse. Someone might have told you that the speedl imit is 85. So what? That doesn't make the speed limit 85, it's 65 no matter what someone tells you.

Those people you spoke of were all sharing massive amounts of files. They are targeting and suing people who have over 3000 files on there systems.

But what were they fined for? The number they had downloaded/had on their system (but not necessarily sharing) or the number they were actually sharing?

The only way they can find that out is becuase you are sharing your files. Otherwise there is no way to tell without coming into your home are hacking into your home computer. And hacking into them would be illegal itself.

The "they can't find out" idea doesn't make it right...

The other thing is, there are alot of other music on the internet that isn't copyrighted. Is legal to download those.

Of course it is. It's legal to copy it and distribute it as there is no copyright. A good example of this, though not music, would be Linux. You can download many versions of it for free, and distribute it too. But there are specific provisions in the user agreement that allow you to do that.

And not everyone supports our copyright laws so....

That's irrelevant, though. If the copyright was made in some state where it's not illegal, then it's not illegal. However, if the copyright was made with the US, then you have to respect that copyright, correct? I mean, you can't go to Mexico, and get drugs (that aren't illegal down there) and then bring them to the US... because that is illegal. We haev laws against them. You can't claim Mexican laws in the US.

That was an example, I know that this is different because it deals with copyrights and international copyrights and such.

 

[thanksjesus]

Penny.

How does downloading music, that you dont pay for(that someone had to pay for to produce)glorify God?

Nobody told me this was a SIN, the Holy Spirit did. I was convicted by Gods Holy Spirit.

I guess you can look for legal loop holes all you want Penny, but your heart is what God looks at, not the copyright laws that man made up.

 

[Deacon]

For the sake of it all...and actually having an education in Criminal Justice and the sort...PennyLess is absolutely correct. He is not wrong in his hostilities towards people who bring out the bible and start spewing things before they actually read the laws of the land. If you want to try to fight against me with that....I will make you look silly by giving you direct and correct quotes from all of my law books. So that is the end of this discussion.

 

[burrow_owl]

making a copy of a cd for personal use? oh, that's illegal. It's only legal for cassettes because of a special exception codified in the Home Analog Taping Act (or something). Think twice before uploading a cd onto your computer; it's illegal.

To me, this demonstrates the total stupidity of our rigid copyright laws. I say down with copyright!

 

[jones_of_pbf]

I was about to rant here.
It takes a GREAT deal for me to back off, and say the "right" thing.
So, I'm working very hard right now.
I would like to ask (if I can) that people try not to sound rude when they post.
I come off WAY too "holier than thou" at another forum, and it doesn't help anyone to respect me.
*****
^notice the greatness of the bold/blue/underlined/itallicized text.

Edit:
If you download anything from Kazaa, and allow others to download from you, you then become a distributer.

 

[SirKenin]

umm. It's illegal to steal, and it's illegal to have possession of stolen property. It's not legal to download or distribute. It's just like the old days of copying someone elses floppies to your tape drive. You just remove the middle man. Theft is theft. I'm a thief. I download songs to see if I should buy a CD. If I like the songs, I buy the CD.

Just like weed. It's illegal to sell and have, but not illegal to smoke.