Just one simple question...

[k4c]

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,

Which day is John referring to here?

 

[Pythons]

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,

Which day is John referring to here?

Sunday, as Sacred Tradition, secular Roman History and Jewish history affirm. It's possible that within the context of this Scripture "Lord's Day" could be meant as in future tense on the day of the Second Coming.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

It bes a mistranslation of sorts. In Greek the possessive would actually read "the day, the Lord's" or rather "the day OF the Lord". In other words, John bes stating that in the Spirit, meaning in vision, he found himself to be there on the Day of the Lord, meaning that Great Day of His revealing / appearing / judgment / etc.

*glances up*

Oh wow, it sees that Pythons already raised that possibility. Good work Bro.

 

[k4c]

Sacred Tradition, also know as, the traditions of men is a very interesting statement and should raise a big red flag for those who seek to obey God over man.

The verse is very clear, John was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day. There is only one day mentioned in the Bible that is specifically called, the Lord's Day.

Isaiah 58:13 "If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable, and shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words,

It's this same day that Jesus is Lord of.

Mark 2:28 "Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.''

It's the same day that was made for man.

Mark 2:27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

It was the same day that Jesus worshiped on.

Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.

It was the same day that Paul worshiped on.

Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

And it's the same day that John worshiped on.

All the verse is saying is that John was in the Spirit on the Sabbath Day. Listen to how another translations put it.

-- Simple English
Revelation 1:10 During the Lord's day, I was in the Spirit. I heard a loud voice behind me. It was like the sound from a trumpet.

-- Living Bible
Revelation 1:10 It was the Lord's Day and I was worshiping, when suddenly I heard a loud voice behind me, a voice that sounded like a trumpet blast,

When the Bibe speaks of the second coming of Christ it never says, "The Lord's day", but rather it always says, "The day of the Lord".

Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and notable day of the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Now if you choose to follow the traditions of men and make void the commandments of God you are free to do so but I can tell you that Jesus had something to say about that.

Matthew 15:3-9 But He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? "For God commanded, saying, `Honor your father and your mother'; and, `He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' "But you say, `Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me has been dedicated to the temple'' 'is released from honoring his father or mother.' "Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. "Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' '

Acts 20:29-30 "For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. "Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.

Please use the Bible to interpret itself that way we can all come to the same conclusion...

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

k4c, it doubts most here have any real interest in the issue you raise (i.e., debating what day of the week bes the "real" sabbath). Either as progressive/moderate/former SDAs they continue to observe the sabbath or else they may not because they don't view it as relevant or necessary. Pythons, being Catholic, will undoubtedly provide you with the "opposition" you crave to set your arguments against, but for the rest of us the subject bes pretty much moot, another "majoring in minors" matter.

As for "what day" the matter bes simple. According to scripture, that day would be the "seventh" day, and according to history concerning who received and observed Mosaic law for centuries, that would be the day we call "Saturday." While Moriah cannot prove anything concerning this, it does appear in the New Testament that a tradition evolved where the apostles came together on the first of the week. Most likely they would have been in temple with the Jews on sabbath-day reasoning with them from scriptures trying to prove to them Jesus bes the Messiah, but beyond that we have no indication they continued observing the seventh-day sabbath. In all fairness we have no indication they did not, either. We simply have no indication of their practice in this regard in the NT.

As scripture plainly states the seal of God to be the Holy Spirit -- something no human can control whether he has or not, Moriah notes, but can only ask God to receive -- it does not believe the question of "what day" has the eschatological significance with which SDAs have invested it. With the excessive obsession over Torah law present among certain right-wing groups (Dominionists and others), and with such groups ever on the march politically, SDAs may yet get their opportunity to be persecuted as part of the people of God who will naturally suffer under such an oppressive regime, but they will by no means be the only ones nor will refusal to give up sabbathkeeping be the only issue (nor even the key or core issue) but just one among many more significant ones. The irony being of course that the very groups that will eventually comprise the power we call the "Beast" (2nd Beast of Rev 13 to be precise) and enact the "Mark" will share with SDAs the same obsession with ushering OT laws and praxis forcibly and insistently into the lives of everyone whether they will or no, and all in the name of presumably serving God. They are about the only modern ilk suitable as candidates for doing so and for enacting such laws as would compel the consciences of individuals to conform on pains of death, but their rhetoric seems to actually have an appeal for many SDAs. On the surface this would seem curious, but a discerning analysis of the similar roots feeding both -- the OT Mosaic laws and the insistence upon their soteriological applicability and necessity today -- reveals the probable cause for this.

 

[k4c]

I would speak the same, in love, if you were living in adultery, worshiping idols or stealing. This is the work of God's people.

James 5:19-20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I would speak the same, in love, if you were living in adultery, worshiping idols or stealing. This is the work of God's people.

James 5:19-20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

With all due respect, you haven't offered us truth. You've offered conjecture. Revelation 1:10 does not define the day of the Lord as representing a special day that occurs once each week, and it certainly makes no reference to the concepts of "the seventh day" or "the sabbath." You've simply read all of these things into the text and offered us your assumptions. Assumptions aren't truths (unless they are directly confirmed in Scripture).

Just my $.02,
BFA

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I would speak the same, in love, if you were living in adultery, worshiping idols or stealing. This is the work of God's people.

James 5:19-20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Many make this claim whose only real desire bes to establish their own opinions and to strike down any who don't see eye to eye with them, but Moriah has not seen those negative elements present in your discourse, friend. Your intentions present as sincere and good. However, it must in like manner caution you that even the best of intentions can sometimes inadvertently pave a road to a place none of us want to go.

Praise God you have a loving and caring heart for His Word and for your brothers and sisters in faith. May He thoroughly establish you in the absolute immovable foundation of His grace and swiftly guide you into all truth by His wonderful Holy Spirit, so that your heart's desire to serve Him may truly be fulfilled.

 

[k4c]

Many make this claim whose only real desire bes to establish their own opinions and to strike down any who don't see eye to eye with them, but Moriah has not seen those negative elements present in your discourse, friend. Your intentions present as sincere and good. However, it must in like manner caution you that even the best of intentions can sometimes inadvertently pave a road to a place none of us want to go.

Praise God you have a loving and caring heart for His Word and for your brothers and sisters in faith. May He thoroughly establish you in the absolute immovable foundation of His grace and swiftly guide you into all truth by His wonderful Holy Spirit, so that your heart's desire to serve Him may truly be fulfilled.

These are not my opinions, these are truths right from the word of God and Jesus Himself.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

These are not my opinions, these are truths right from the word of God and Jesus Himself.

The truth is that Revelation 1 says nothing about the sabbath at all.

BFA

 

[k4c]

With all due respect, you haven't offered us truth. You've offered conjecture. Revelation 1:10 does not define the day of the Lord as representing a special day that occurs once each week, and it certainly makes no reference to the concepts of "the seventh day" or "the sabbath." You've simply read all of these things into the text and offered us your assumptions. Assumptions aren't truths (unless they are directly confirmed in Scripture).

Just my $.02,
BFA

No one knows which day John was referring to just by reading the words, "The Lord's Day" but if we use the Bible to establish which day is the Lord's day we can all come to the same conclusion. If we don't use the Bible to establish which day is the Lord's day then to the Beast kingdon it would be Sunday but to Muslims it would be Friday.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Double Post. My Apologies.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

No one knows which day John was referring to just by reading the words, "The Lord's Day" but if we use the Bible to establish which day is the Lord's day we can all come to the same conclusion.

If that is your desire--to search the Bible to find out which day is "the Lord's day," then I'll assume that you are considering each of the following:

• Isaiah 2:6
• Isaiah 2:12
• Isaiah 13:6
• Isaiah 13:9
• Jeremiah 46:10
• Ezekiel 13:5
• Ezekiel 30:3
• Joel 1:15
• Joel 2:1
• Joel 2:11
• Joel 2:28
• Joel 2:30
• Joel 2:31
• Joel 3:14
• Amos 5:18
• Amos 5:20
• Obadiah 1:15
• Zephaniah 1:7-8
• Zephaniah 1:14
• Zechariah 14:1
• Malichi 4:1
• Malachi 4:5
• Acts 2:20
• 1 Corinthians 5:5
• 2 Corinthians 1:14
• 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2
• 2 Thessalonians 2:2
• 2 Peter 3:10

Upon considering these texts, you will conclude that the Lord's day refers to the day of judgment, not the seventh day. This is why I have not seen the relevance of Revelation 1:10 to the discussions we've been having.

If we don't use the Bible to establish which day is the Lord's day then to the Beast kingdon it would be Sunday but to Muslims it would be Friday.

I see no Biblical basis for concluding that the Lord's day is Friday, Saturday or Sunday.

BFA

 

[Kolya]

For at least a Thousand years after the time of Christ, the Church referred to Saturday as Sabbath and Sunday as Resurrection day or the Lord's day.
I like the allusion some have here as it being Judgment day, but as that day has not yet occurred, St John could not have been referring to that as he was in the present tense.

Even in Russia and many Latin countries Saturday is still Sabbath, and in Russia Sunday is Resurrection Day, even after all these years of communism.

So therein is the Lie perpetrated by the SDA's that the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday. The only thing that changed is the fact that Christians gather to worship on the Resurrection day, where Jews still clung to their old Sabbath, which by the way had been fulfilled at Calvary.
Jesus only gave us One Commandment - to love one another. Also to follow the precepts from the sermon on the Mount, where to my knowledge Sabbath observance was never mentioned.

If Christians were to to observe the Jewish Sabbath, it would have been very clearly preached in the new Testament, which it is not!

 

[Byfaithalone1]

For at least a Thousand years after the time of Christ, the Church referred to Saturday as Sabbath and Sunday as Resurrection day or the Lord's day.
I like the allusion some have here as it being Judgment day, but as that day has not yet occurred, St John could not have been referring to that as he was in the present tense.

Even in Russia and many Latin countries Saturday is still Sabbath, and in Russia Sunday is Resurrection Day, even after all these years of communism.

So therein is the Lie perpetrated by the SDA's that the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday. The only thing that changed is the fact that Christians gather to worship on the Resurrection day, where Jews still clung to their old Sabbath, which by the way had been fulfilled at Calvary.
Jesus only gave us One Commandment - to love one another. Also to follow the precepts from the sermon on the Mount, where to my knowledge Sabbath observance was never mentioned.

If Christians were to to observe the Jewish Sabbath, it would have been very clearly preached in the new Testament, which it is not!

The point here is that there is no Biblical basis for concluding that the phrase "the Lord's day" refers to either the first day or the seventh day.

BFA

 

[k4c]

For at least a Thousand years after the time of Christ, the Church referred to Saturday as Sabbath and Sunday as Resurrection day or the Lord's day.
I like the allusion some have here as it being Judgment day, but as that day has not yet occurred, St John could not have been referring to that as he was in the present tense.

Even in Russia and many Latin countries Saturday is still Sabbath, and in Russia Sunday is Resurrection Day, even after all these years of communism.

So therein is the Lie perpetrated by the SDA's that the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday. The only thing that changed is the fact that Christians gather to worship on the Resurrection day, where Jews still clung to their old Sabbath, which by the way had been fulfilled at Calvary.
Jesus only gave us One Commandment - to love one another. Also to follow the precepts from the sermon on the Mount, where to my knowledge Sabbath observance was never mentioned.

If Christians were to to observe the Jewish Sabbath, it would have been very clearly preached in the new Testament, which it is not!

Principles of seventh day Sabbath keeping is taught all throughout the New Testament.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Principles of seventh day Sabbath keeping is taught all throughout the New Testament.

Such as John 5:16-18?

BFA

 

[freeindeed2]

Principles of seventh day Sabbath keeping is taught all throughout the New Testament.

And yet never a command for the newly formed church to observe the old covenant sign, nor ANY instruction on how it should be kept. What is a Gentile to do?

In CHRIST alone...

 

[Pythons]

Sacred Tradition, also know as, the traditions of men is a very interesting statement and should raise a big red flag for those who seek to obey God over man.

The verse is very clear, John was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day. There is only one day mentioned in the Bible that is specifically called, the Lord's Day.

"Therefore, bretheran, STAND FAST AND HOLD THE TRADITIONS which you were taught whether by word or Epistle." 2 Thess 2,15

The system of Judaism moved from De Jure into De Facto upon the Resurrection of Jesus The Christ. By maintaining the Jewish Sabbath a person moves from the De Jure Christian Law into the De Facto state of Judaism.

Sunday is the Lord's Day for Christians according to any Orthodox Jew and given that you accept their authority on what the Canon of Old Testament is it would be odd for you to reject their authority on what day their historians as well as secular Roman historians state the Lord's Day was and is.

Isaiah 58:13 "If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable, and shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words,

"My holy day" , "Sabbath to the Lord", etc, etc, etc.

It's this same day that Jesus is Lord of.

Mark 2:28 "Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.''

= The Sabbath is subordinate to the One who created it, Jesus Christ. If anything, the above text minimizes the Sabbath to an entity of creation which is exactly what Jewish teaching has always said the Sabbath was. God's Rest is understood to be a "perpetual rest" because it is perfection and perfection can never "DECAY".

In otherwords, in the creation account of Genesis God had done everything and invited man to "live in His (God's Rest). Man was created, sinned and expelled prior to entering God's rest and Jesus came to bring Man back into the rest of God.

It's the same day that was made for man.[/SIZE]

Mark 2:27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

"I swore in my wrath they would never enter MY REST".

The Sabbath was made for man, for him to live ETERNALLY IN IT. To suggest that God created the seventh day to be experienced once a week is a gross missunderstanding of Judaism and historic Christianity because by default it suggests that the Sabbath Rest of God rots for 6 days then becomes perfect again.

 

[Kolya]

Principles of seventh day Sabbath keeping is taught all throughout the New Testament.

Not to the Gentiles, they were not. And the first Church council on church doctrine in Acts 15:24-29 nowhere mentions the Sabbath. The Church had entered the "Eighth" day, which I will not go into here, but was much written of by the Early Church Fathers. And I believe the Early Father's had a better understanding of Church Doctrine than EG White, seeing they had a hand in putting together the New Testament as we know it.

No, until you can show me the chapter and verse in the NEW TESTAMENT where Jesus or the Apostles commanded us to Keep the old Sabbath, I will follow what the Church which Christ built advises us to do.

The Old Testament was for those who were living in pre-Christian times under the Old Covenant.