Just Discovered Something

ChristIsSovereign · Apr 13, 2018

Was interested in Roman Catholicism, but I was having some curiosity about something.

Fr. Victor E. Novak. An Appeal to Traditional Roman Catholics From an Orthodox Catholic Priest / OrthoChristian.Com

I read this article and it said that the RCC broke the pact of the 5 patriarchates and split off into its own thing in the 11th century A.D.

Is that in fact true? The Bible verses in John 15:1-11 made a whole new level of sense to me. It seems like the RCC is wanting the OC to come back to them when it's the RCC that needs to come back into Orthodoxy.

Correct?

Decanus · Apr 13, 2018

You're in the Orthodox forum so we know what the answers are going to be

ChristIsSovereign · Apr 13, 2018

Decanus said:
You're in the Orthodox forum so we know what the answers are going to be

Of course, but the article is pretty convincing on the matter at hand, is it not? I find that the Catholic faith might be a little excessive in places. While I'll most likely attend Catholic mass for the foreseeable future, I will probably have some issues with it until somehow I can resolve it.

Decanus · Apr 13, 2018

Well i'll say this, I don't think one article is enough to come to such a conclusion. People have wrestled with it for years before making a decision. My advice would be to read as many sources from both camps, pray, and then make an informed decision.

ChristIsSovereign · Apr 13, 2018

Decanus said:
Well i'll say this, I don't think one article is enough to come to such a conclusion. People have wrestled with it for years before making a decision. My advice would be to read as many sources from both camps, pray, and then make an informed decision.

Will do my best. I tend to look for articles that mention the differences and why they differ. I want to see what side I'd fit best on, y'know.

Phronema · Apr 13, 2018

ChristIsSovereign said:
Was interested in Roman Catholicism, but I was having some curiosity about something.

Fr. Victor E. Novak. An Appeal to Traditional Roman Catholics From an Orthodox Catholic Priest / OrthoChristian.Com

I read this article and it said that the RCC broke the pact of the 5 patriarchates and split off into its own thing in the 11th century A.D.

Is that in fact true? The Bible verses in John 15:1-11 made a whole new level of sense to me. It seems like the RCC is wanting the OC to come back to them when it's the RCC that needs to come back into Orthodoxy.

Correct?

The issue that you have is that things have changed in the RCC since the schism. There are things that exist today in Catholicism that didn't exist back then in Christendom. Before the schism.

ChristIsSovereign · Apr 13, 2018

LessThanPerfect2016 said:
The issue that you have is that things have changed in the RCC since the schism. There are things that exist today in Catholicism that didn't exist back then in Christendom. Before the schism.

Yeah, it seems that the Orthodox are closer to what Christendom was before the schism. I definitely have a catholic faith, but is it Roman? Not so sure anymore. E.g. being a slave to Mary, or even the thought of it, makes my spirit writhe, essentially.

Phronema · Apr 13, 2018

ChristIsSovereign said:
Yeah, it seems that the Orthodox are closer to what Christendom was before the schism. I definitely have a catholic faith, but is it Roman? Not so sure anymore. E.g. being a slave to Mary, or even the thought of it, makes my spirit writhe, essentially.

Well both venerate the Holy Theotokos. Maybe it depends on what you've seen, and experienced.

Please understand that the Holy Theotokos, who is the Mother of Christ is venerated in Holy Orthodoxy. So in that regard Orthodox are quite similar to Catholics.

Phronema · Apr 13, 2018

ChristIsSovereign said:
Yeah, it seems that the Orthodox are closer to what Christendom was before the schism. I definitely have a catholic faith, but is it Roman? Not so sure anymore. E.g. being a slave to Mary, or even the thought of it, makes my spirit writhe, essentially.

What do you mean when you say being a slave to Mary though?

ChristIsSovereign · Apr 13, 2018

LessThanPerfect2016 said:
Well both venerate the Holy Theotokos. Maybe it depends on what you've seen, and experienced.

Please understand that the Holy Theotokos, who is the Mother of Christ is venerated in Holy Orthodoxy. So in that regard Orthodox are quite similar to Catholics.

I'd hold Mary in high regards but I wouldn't dedicate my life to the service of Mary, that's the difference.

ChristIsSovereign · Apr 13, 2018

LessThanPerfect2016 said:
What do you mean when you say being a slave to Mary though?

Like devoting my entire life to the veneration of the Theotokos.

Phronema · Apr 13, 2018

ChristIsSovereign said:
I'd hold Mary in high regards but I wouldn't dedicate my life to the service of Mary, that's the difference.

I see. There is no dedication of life, or anything like that to the Theotokos.

So, the very word Theotokos means "God-bearer". She is acknowledged as the bearer of God. In addition as having accepted the request of God from the Archangel, and showing great humility, and obedience for having done so she is venerated. Worship is reserved for Christ and God ONLY.

Basically there are many reasons to "venerate" her, but we dedicate our lives to God. It's stated each Sunday in the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom that we enjoy most Sundays.

☦Marius☦ · Apr 14, 2018

This is a reminder to all that you are on the Orthodox Forum, and preaching things outside of Orthodox Beliefs is against forum rules. Thank you

Phronema · Apr 14, 2018

☦Marius☦ said:
This is a reminder to all that you are on the Orthodox Forum, and preaching things outside of Orthodox Beliefs is against forum rules. Thank you

Was this for me?

☦Marius☦ · Apr 14, 2018

ChristIsSovereign said:
I'd hold Mary in high regards but I wouldn't dedicate my life to the service of Mary, that's the difference.

nor should you. We serve Christ.

ChristIsSovereign · Apr 14, 2018

☦Marius☦ said:
nor should you. We serve Christ.

Amen. Serve Christ and serve Him only. Just as He serves His Church.

☦Marius☦ · Apr 14, 2018

LessThanPerfect2016 said:
Well both venerate the Holy Theotokos. Maybe it depends on what you've seen, and experienced.

Please understand that the Holy Theotokos, who is the Mother of Christ is venerated in Holy Orthodoxy. So in that regard Orthodox are quite similar to Catholics.

We are similar yes. Veneration is simply honoring. We honor the Mother of Christ as one should. But because of Catholic dogmatization of certain things that the Orthodox do not believe (immaculate conception, and her as mediatrix/ co redemptress) we have very different ideas of who exactly she was and her role in salvation.

ChristIsSovereign · Apr 14, 2018

☦Marius☦ said:
We are similar yes. Veneration is simply honoring. We honor the Mother of Christ as one should. But because of Catholic dogmatization of certain things that the Orthodox do not believe (immaculate conception, and her as mediatrix/ co redemptress) we have very different ideas of who exactly she was and her role in salvation.

I definitely felt the Holy Spirit telling me to back away in regards to the Immaculate Conception, Marian devotion, Co-Mediatrix, etc.

Do you Orthodox believe Mary is the wife of the Holy Spirit?

Phronema · Apr 14, 2018

I'll keep quiet, I have a long way to go in Orthodoxy. One day though

Edit: It's difficult when you're excited about discovering something. I apologize.

☦Marius☦ · Apr 14, 2018

ChristIsSovereign said:
I definitely felt the Holy Spirit telling me to back away in regards to the Immaculate Conception, Marian devotion, Co-Mediatrix, etc.

Do you Orthodox believe Mary is the wife of the Holy Spirit?

I've heard her referred to as the Bride of God. I think it would be blasphemous to think that God would consummate with anyone that wasn't his Bride. It's kind of a human way of explaining something completely beyond our understanding though.

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